| When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I'm being tongue-in-cheek with that subject title… but seriously! Can producers stop hiring him for a bit please. I'm sorry, but The Sound of Music Live confirmed further what I've been thinking for years… Rob Ashford is not a good director or choreographer. That isn't to say he is untalented or incapable of good work… but I have sat through many of his misdirected and over choreographed (and misguidedly choreographed -- meaning not that the steps themselves are "bad" but that they feel wrong for the piece or worse the moment in the play or the character or the flow) productions, and I just don't get it. Why does he keep getting such high profile work? For the record I am basing this feeling on his work on the aforementioned SOM Live, Evita, How to Succeed…, Promises Promises and Curtains. I didn't see Cry-Baby or The Wedding Singer except for the Tonys, and I thought he did a good job with Thoroughly Modern Millie (a show that doesn't need organic choreography) and I thought half of what he did with Parade was great and half of it was not. I think it might be a question of theatrical intelligence and taste even… especially as a choreographer, he doesn't seem to know what is required at any given time. So he may devise something that is dynamic or impressive or whatever, but it feels wrong for the material or the moment, and he doesn't see that. And of course, he would clearly disagree with me on those moments and material… I'm just giving my opinion. At best he is talented and hardworking but inconsistent. At worst, his work is actually, in my opinion, damaging in shows like Evita and How to Succeed and SOM. I mean sincerely that I think his direction of the material and actors and his choreography of those productions (at least) failed (failed the material and cast) and damaged what should have been better productions. I know not everyone will agree with my opinions… I can't help thinking this. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | hitbycab 10:51 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I loved HOW TO and CRY BABY I loathed PROMISES The only thing that really grated last night on SOM were the couples dancing at the big party. Frankly my dear, they looked ridiculous with those lifts... | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 10:14 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - hitbycab 10:51 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| As I mentioned, I didn't see Cry-Baby (I liked the Tony number) but I feel strongly that Ashford's choreography almost ruined the whole show for me. It was suffocating and obnoxiously overdone. You know when the show starts with a choreographed bit that he added that the director isn't running the show the choreographer is, even if they are the same person. I would say he needs a director with better taste deciding what of his dancing is appropriate, but then, Michael Grandage seems to have given him the green light to ruin a whole lot of the musical staging in Evita, so who knows. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 02:23 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - hitbycab 10:51 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| There was one instant when I saw an entire garter belt whoosh by. What kind of parties do they give at the Trapp place anyway? | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | aislestorm 09:34 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| Just be happy you didn't have to sit through his travesty of "A Streetcar Named Desire" at the Donmar. There were more ghosts than characters on that stage. | |
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| what about his gay-ghost Cat On A Hot Tin Roof? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 10:17 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - aislestorm 09:34 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I didn't realize he used the gay ghosts in BOTH Williams revivals. It smacks of his tasteless unintelligent directing and I can't believe he got away with it twice! I didn't see either so I can't have an opinion on the productions as a whole, but I didn't hear good things and as a concept I find it ridiculously unnecessary. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | TheHarveyBoy 07:45 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| Ashford is a passable choreographer but an appalling director. I think perhaps that he believes that direction is merely choreography of book scenes: moving actors around.There was clearly no direction of the sort that would help Carrie Underwood and Stephen Moyer understand their characters' needs and wants and how to portray that in their acting. The seasoned stage professionals (MacDonald, Benanti and Borle) held their own because they filled in the gaps themselves. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | JayBee 07:10 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| Yes, the fault lied not in the stars, my friend, but with the director. An amazingly lucky man who continues to work in spite of mediocre (or worse) work. | |
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| poor Jonathan Butterell | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 10:20 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - JayBee 07:10 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| If Rob Ashford gets to work in London and have success that translates into bigger things here, I wish that Jonathan Butterell, a Brit who gets to work in America, would have the same kind of opportunities. I think he is a vastly more intelligent choreographer than Ashford. | |
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| "I didn't see Cry-Baby " | |
| Posted by: | jero 07:04 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| IMO, his choreography was terrific, pulled from the characters and story. It was funny and unexpected.. I LOVED THIS SHOW | |
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| re: "I didn't see Cry-Baby " | |
| Posted by: | hitbycab 10:53 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | "I didn't see Cry-Baby " - jero 07:04 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| me too! The prison dance was brilliant!! "I'm a little bit upset"...or something like that. | |
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| re: "I didn't see Cry-Baby " | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 10:23 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: "I didn't see Cry-Baby " - hitbycab 10:53 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I enjoyed that number a lot on the Tonys… and I'm willing to assume his work with the musical numbers throughout was good. But Cry-Baby is a heightened and stylized story and execution, by nature, and I think Ashford's unnatural/inorganic choreography and movement would be much better suited to that kind of material. Just because someone is good at choreographing one type of show doesn't mean can do them all. | |
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| what he did with The Stroll was brilliant | |
| Posted by: | jero 05:59 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: "I didn't see Cry-Baby " - hitbycab 10:53 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I rarely laugh out loud! it got me. | |
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| "I DID see Cry-Baby " and loved it! | |
| Posted by: | WaymanWong 10:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | "I didn't see Cry-Baby " - jero 07:04 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| That was my favorite musical of that season. I loved the tunes by David Javerbaum and Adam Schlesinger, and it had dazzling dancing. Ashford did a knockout number called ''A Little Upset,'' featuring a prison break and convicts tapping with license plates on their feet. Besides carrying the story, it was clever and dynamic. (The Tonys featured a slightly abridged version.) I really love Ashford's witty, inventive and athletic choreography. Among my favorite showstoppers: ''Forget About the Boy'' in ''Thoroughly Modern Millie,'' ''It's Your Wedding Day'' in ''The Wedding Singer,'' ''Buenos Aires'' in ''Evita,'' and ''The Brotherhood of Man'' in ''How to Succeed.'' And I made many return visits to each one. Ashford is an 8-time Tony nominee (winner for ''Millie''), a 6-time Drama Desk nominee (winner for ''Cry-Baby''), a 5-time Olivier Award nominee and an Emmy winner for his work at the Oscars. He's done the Kennedy Honors, opera, etc. Ashford may not win any popularity awards on this board, but producers clearly enjoy hiring him, and his work wins him awards and nominations, so he must be doing something right. Not that he hasn't made missteps (like the recent ''Cat on a Hot Tin Roof''), but when it comes to musicals, I love watching him put his best feet forward. | |
| URL: | ''Cry-Baby'' on the Tonys (a little abridged & not as good as seeing it live) |
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| I thought "No Way to Stop It" was quite well directed. | |
| Posted by: | GrumpyMorningBoy 04:16 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| The other numbers, from what I saw, were pretty stock -- and rather unimaginative -- but the staging on "No Way to Stop It" was crystal clear, to the point, active, and really let the actors play actable choices. I've seen far muddier, duller staging on that number far too many times. There's NO DENYING that B'way is experiencing a serious lack of creativity and boldness when it comes to our choreographers; it's exciting when young dancers like Josh Rhodes and Josh Prince break out of performing into choreography, but we haven't seen anyone create the kind of dynamic styles that form memorable images the way the great choreographers of the past had done. Including Strohman, I don't feel like I've seen STUNNING choreography since the late Sir Kenneth MacMillan's dances which were culled together for the CAROUSEL revival. And that was 20 years ago. Reinking's reworking of Fosse was great for CHICAGO, no doubt, but we need a talented new choreographer with the boldness of a Jack Cole, Robbins, Michael Kidd, Michael Bennett. With all the talent that's showing up in pop music "So You Think You Can Dance," it's time for some of it to come to Broadway. - GMB | |
| URL: | MacMillan's dream ballet video clip |
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| I don't even need "stunning" choreography… just good and fitting for the scene | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 10:30 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | I thought "No Way to Stop It" was quite well directed. - GrumpyMorningBoy 04:16 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| My problem with the work of Ashford isn't so much that it isn't stunning enough… that would be nice, but that's not the issue. The issue is that it's wrong for the scene and for the characters and the piece. It often has people doing completely inorganic steps (like what they do at the party in SOM) or choreography that is disconnected to the material, or way overly connected in a literal sense, or worst of all that are not helping the story and are upstaging the scene. He thinks like a dancer not like an audience member or even an actor, and it is constantly evident. How To Succeed is a prime example of this stuff to me. He suffocated it with his choreography… and even if the style of the production was "right", the timing and pace of the direction, and his direction of Radcliffe, was completely off. And his work in Evita made me think he didn't understand the show… perhaps that is Grandage's fault. The point is… how about we start with just consistently good choreography that serves the needs of the show and the scene and the characters? | |
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| With all the talent that's showing up in pop music "So You Think You Can Dance," it's time for some of it to come to Broadway. " | |
| Posted by: | jero 07:02 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | I thought "No Way to Stop It" was quite well directed. - GrumpyMorningBoy 04:16 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I've thought this for years and thought In The Heights was a great start in that direction. I'm waiting for more. Flashdance had flashes of it too, but that, by now is a period piece! | |
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| re: With all the talent that's showing up in pop music "So You Think You Can Dance," it's time for some of it to come to Broadway. " | |
| Posted by: | GrumpyMorningBoy 01:51 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | With all the talent that's showing up in pop music "So You Think You Can Dance," it's time ... - jero 07:02 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I had a typo in that phrase -- I meant to say pop music AND "So You Think You Can Dance," but we've really seen an elevation in the style and intricacy of dance within music videos, pop star tours, etc. Back in the 70's and 80's, real singer-dancers were rare. Celebrated, sure, but other than the Jacksons, Paula Abdul and Madonna, you really didn't see singers who were doing CHOREOGRAPHY. Nowadays, there are a TON of singers showing off real DANCE dance within their acts. P!nk's "Try" video is a great example. Such gorgeous choreography. And just about any major tour is full of real DANCER dancers, showing off their stuff. America has developed a real appreciation for it. I think that's great. - GMB | |
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| "America has developed a real appreciation for it." (dancers) | |
| Posted by: | jero 06:03 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: With all the talent that's showing up in pop music "So You Think You Can Dance," it's ... - GrumpyMorningBoy 01:51 pm EST 12/06/13 |
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| considering how big the dance competition world has gotten, that's not surprising! sooner or later broadway will catch up with the talent out there. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 03:48 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I liked this Sound of Music a bit more than it seems many others here did, but I have to wonder how much better it might have been if, say, Bartlett Sher or David Cromer had directed the actors. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 03:51 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - AlanScott 03:48 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I think it would have been MUCH MUCH MUCH better. If you're going to put the whole production on the shoulders of a non-acting pop/country star, you have to have a director who can get them where they need to be… and the whole cast as well, and the whole vision of the production. They should have hired a director of that caliber and a good choreographer to focus on the dancing and movement when it is necessary… but this isn't the kind of show that benefits from a choreographer-director. Though I imagine Rob Ashford likes to think of himself as as strong if not stronger as a director-choreographer rather than a choreographer-director. I don't know which I think he's worse at. | |
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| Maria moved around .... | |
| Posted by: | jdm 06:33 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:51 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| so much singing the title song, I feared for her running into a fake tree. And as someone mentioned below, the Rolf and Liesl tumbling down the hill was not effective. And Rolf looked like he was 30 yr old chasing after a 16 year old. Jim | |
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| EVERYONE moved way too much | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 10:34 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | Maria moved around .... - jdm 06:33 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| It's like a Directing 101 no-no… movement needs to not only be motivated organically but it needs to not be a distraction. Ashford forgets this all the time. In SOM especially, he is not choreographing/directing a heightened reality besides that they are singing, he is doing a scene with a song in it. Yes he choreographs even as a director in a scene without the song as if he is interpreting everything through dance… but not in an interesting experimental kind of way, just in the worst kind of "broadway" way. That's what I kept thinking while watching SOM, that this will only reinforce how silly most of the country thinks musicals are, always and by their nature, because of the way he stages and choreographs so much of it. It's like community theater but with much better performers. | |
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| re: Maria moved around .... | |
| Posted by: | hitbycab 10:55 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | Maria moved around .... - jdm 06:33 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| didn't Carrie/Maria slip a bit during the opening number. I noticed that...and felt bad...but she carried on Carrie was not a good actress but she gets an A+ for taking this on and getting through it!! Plus a beautiful voice. | |
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| And why did the Captain .... | |
| Posted by: | jdm 08:37 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | Maria moved around .... - jdm 06:33 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| have a British accent? Yes, I know that Stephen Moyer is British, but when only one character has an accent, it sounds like he is a foreigner out of all the people there. I felt the same with the original Broadway Evita - Peron was the only one in the cast with a Spanish accent, such an odd choice even back then. Jim | |
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| re: And why did the Captain .... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 10:37 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | And why did the Captain .... - jdm 08:37 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I have ALWAYS wondered that about Evita and it has always bothered me. It seems like lazy acting because acting is much easier when you can employ an accent. I don't even mean that in an insulting way… it helps you quickly get into another person, but it is very odd when you're the only one. I never think accents are necessary when the entire play takes place in the same place where all the people would be speaking the same language. Like Evita. In something like Cabaret, it's harder because do we assume everything is in English? We have to, and then it is appropriate for everyone to have their appropriate accent when speaking to each other (German, British, American). | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:57 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:51 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| Well, whatever you or I may think of him, it seems like a lot of the critics in London think he's a good director of plays. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 08:48 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - AlanScott 04:57 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| Do they think he's a good director of plays, or are they just impressed by his productions because they feature major stars? I haven't read the reviews, but I'll try to look up some of them. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:30 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Michael_Portantiere 08:48 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I'm not feeling like looking up the reviews over there of his Streetcar, Cat and Anna Christie, although you certainly may, but my memory is that they were really excellent. And the critics gave him credit. Just putting stars in a classic play is not going to impress the critics. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 04:40 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - AlanScott 04:30 pm EST 12/06/13 |
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| "Just putting stars in a classic play is not going to impress the critics." It's not ALWAYS going to impress the critics, as evidenced by the reception of CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF on Broadway. But maybe Brit crits are more impressed by movie stars on stage per se? | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | sf 05:04 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Michael_Portantiere 04:40 pm EST 12/06/13 |
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| If anything, they're possibly *less* impressed by "movie stars". It is hardly unusual here for an actor, even a top-level "star", to move, routinely, between theatre and film. It's not a novelty, and our major critics are unlikely to give anyone a pass simply for deigning to appear in a play, however famous they are. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:02 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Michael_Portantiere 04:40 pm EST 12/06/13 |
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| I would tend to guess that they're less impressed than our critics are, but perhaps I'm wrong. In any case, the fact that they seem to have been impressed with Ashford's productions does suggest that you may be right. ;) Of course, I haven't seen his London productions. Perhaps he has for some reason done better work in London than he has here. | |
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| re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? | |
| Posted by: | sf 12:54 pm EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | re: When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Michael_Portantiere 08:48 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| He got good reviews for "Macbeth" at the Manchester International Festival (OK, co-directed with Kenneth Branagh). As far as musicals go, I had some quibbles with his production of "Parade", but I thought he did a really terrific job on "Finding Neverland" - better than the very mixed reviews might suggest (the critics seemed to review it as a finished product, rather than as a tryout run, and there was clearly still work to be done on the book and score; there was no problem at all, though, with Ashford's contribution). | |
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| Wholeheartedly agree | |
| Posted by: | GabbyGerard 03:32 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | When will Rob Ashford's reign of terror end? - Chazwaza 03:26 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| I couldn't have said it better myself. The trend of hiring trick driven choreographers who then often parlay their frustrating success into careers as directors (Ashford and Jerry Mitchell are the most egregious examples) gets me seriously worried about the future of musical theatre. When will we return to hiring STORYTELLERS? | |
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| God, deliver us from Jerry Mitchell too | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 03:37 am EST 12/06/13 |
| In reply to: | Wholeheartedly agree - GabbyGerard 03:32 am EST 12/06/13 |
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| After seeing Kinky Boots this month I felt is as much or more than ever… why anyone lets him direct is beyond me. And his choreography is fine, sometimes fantastic, sometimes totally uninspired cliched dreck (like a lot of what's in Kinky Boots). Maybe if he had more time to focus on choreography only he'd have a better chance at only delivering the good stuff. These two men make me long for the comparatively intelligent and understated if generally uninteresting charm of Kathleen Marshall's work… which is something I never thought I'd say. | |
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