| Define a "good" song... | |
| Posted by: | Zelgo 02:28 pm EST 01/15/14 |
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| The recent discussion of whether the FROZEN movie-and-soon-to-be-stage musical score and its featured song "Let It Go" are "good" or not got me thinking about whether anyone can define what exactly is "good." Throughout history, "good" in the arts is generally defined as popular appeal, whether at the time of creation or when re-discovered generations later. Sometimes the public thinks its good when its created and then it loses appeal as tastes change in later generations. The public has already weighed in on FROZEN by making this one of the highest grossing Disney movies ever and taking the album to #1. Idina Menzel (not Lovato's) version of Let it Go is climbing the charts. On ATC we get variations of "it's good!" "No, it's bad!" Either way FROZEN's success will mean that the Lopez's will be employed writing movie and theatre songs for a while. So what makes a good song? | |
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| re: Define a "good" song... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 04:04 pm EST 01/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Define a "good" song... - Zelgo 02:28 pm EST 01/15/14 |
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| A good song (and I assume you mean in a theatrical context) is a song that produces in the audience (or at least most of the audience) the result desired by the show's creators. Anything other than that definition applies some subjective gloss of the person offering the definition. There are certain things that we can assume the show's creators do NOT want (like for the audience to be bored by it), but beyond that, the purpose really has to focus on the two ends of the spectrum -- the creators' intention or purpose for the song, and whether the audience gets from it what the creators intended. The creators, as an example, can employ a song to convey character, and it may technically do that from their standpoint, but if the audience checks out of the song, it will not fulfill the intention. So if I had to reduce it to two words, they would be intention and fulfillment. What we get here are a lot of posts that criticize songs because the person posting doesn't personally like the song from a stylistic standpoint. While everyone's individual take is legitimate, and sometimes interesting, it often obscures any objective meaning to the question of what makes a song good. | |
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| re: Define a "good" song... | |
| Posted by: | keikekaze 09:15 pm EST 01/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Define a "good" song... - ryhog 04:04 pm EST 01/15/14 |
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| What we get here are a lot of posts that criticize songs because the person posting doesn't personally like the song from a stylistic standpoint. While everyone's individual take is legitimate, and sometimes interesting, it often obscures any objective meaning to the question of what makes a song good There is no "objective meaning to the question what makes a song good." The question, like most questions not seeking a mathematical answer, is an opinion-seeking one, and there are no objective opinions. (Least of all the opinions of those who think their own opinions are objective.) There are well-informed opinions and not-so-well informed ones, but there are no "objective" ones. | |
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| re: Define a "good" song... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 11:00 pm EST 01/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Define a "good" song... - keikekaze 09:15 pm EST 01/15/14 |
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| Well, obviously, I agree with that, but the OP asked about defining "what exactly is 'good,'" which did not sound like a call for opinions. My response (as you quote) focused on what we CAN quantify, which is not whether a song is "good" or not (something we both agree is impossible to say objectively), but whether there is a correlation between intention and fulfillment. | |
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| Only a theater song has to be "good." | |
| Posted by: | keikekaze 02:40 pm EST 01/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Define a "good" song... - Zelgo 02:28 pm EST 01/15/14 |
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| Or a song that's going to be sung by a character in a movie (as opposed to just being voiced over the main titles, say, by a vocalist who may not even be in the movie). A "good" theater song, in an integrated book musical, must suit the character's individual personality (and it helps if it suits the performer's as well). the time, the place, and the character's position in the dramatic through-line at that particular moment in the show. It must also reveal information about the character, or the plot, that the audience hasn't heard before, or else it's wasting time, even if it's otherwise a terrific song. A "good" pop song doesn't have to be any of the above things. A "good" pop song is anything the public will respond to strongly. Of course, pop success is hardly a fair competition, since some pop songs are drummed endlessly into people's heads until everyone is sure that they "love" them, thanks to all the repetition, and other pop songs are not. | |
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| re: Only a theater song has to be "good." | |
| Posted by: | garyd 02:59 pm EST 01/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Only a theater song has to be "good." - keikekaze 02:40 pm EST 01/15/14 |
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| "information about the character, or the plot, that the audience hasn't heard before," This specific "criteria" always reminds of of "He Vas My Boyfriend". First she tells us then she sings about it. Totally boring. What a wasted opportunity. | |
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