| re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies | |
| Posted by: | showtunetrivia 01:23 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - MockingbirdGirl 11:06 am EST 01/20/14 |
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| Thanks for posting, MockingbirdGirl. Though I'm curious to know what Rodgers and Hammerstein-style songs the author finds in FOLLIES! Laura | |
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| re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies | |
| Posted by: | keikekaze 03:15 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - showtunetrivia 01:23 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| "Too Many Mornings"? "Could I Leave You"? "Losing My Mind"? "I'm Still Here"? They're all the kind of big, dramatic, character-revealing arias at which Rodgers and Hammerstein excelled. I'm not saying that R&H would ever have written those exact songs with those exact lyrics, but given the right dramatic situation they might have written something very much like them. | |
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| re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 11:38 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - keikekaze 03:15 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| Of the four, I would say "Too Many Mornings" is the nearest thing to a Rodgers and Hammerstein song. The form relatively conventional, a pop ballad with a contrasting middle section followed by a reprise. The dramatic situation, ex-lovers meeting after many years and pining for what might have been, is the sort of slightly offbeat scene that Hammerstein would find interesting. In a sense it's a "conditional love song," though a good deal less hopeful than the R&H classics from the 1940s. "I'm Still Here" is such an interesting piece: it's obviously a character song, but it sounds like a pastiche number. The way that reconciles, I think, is that Sondheim is depicting Carlotta as a raconteur: it's the story of her life, but she's jazzing it up for a big room, sort of like Judy Garland telling the story of :the Academy Award I lost." It's only natural, I think, that a larger-than-life type lady like Carlotta should imagine her autobiography being sung to a Harold Arlen tune. | |
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| re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies | |
| Posted by: | EvFoDr 04:19 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - keikekaze 03:15 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| You may be right in a very general sense about character-revealing arias, although I don't think that's specific to R and H, but I know somewhere Sondheim has documented which composers or songs were the inspiration for the pastiche numbers and unless my memory is failing me, R and H are not among them. Losing My mind is modeled after The Man I Love, which is evident not only in that they are both torch songs, but also the loose structure of the melody line. Could I Leave You? and Too Many Mornings are not pastiche songs, they are book songs. I always thought of them as composed in the "modern" style Sondheim was using at the time. I'm Still Here has been hotly debated--is it a character book song or is it Carlotta's Follies number from the past? I personally think it's meant to be an autobiographical character song, but unlike all the other "book" songs in Follies, it is also very clearly a pastiche in style. Maybe the waters got a little muddy here, because I am pretty sure the song it replaced, Can That Boy Foxtrot, WAS meant to be Carlotta recreating an old Follies number. | |
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| re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies | |
| Posted by: | keikekaze 06:20 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - EvFoDr 04:19 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| I didn't mean to suggest that Sondheim consciously or unconsciously modeled any of the songs I named on Rodgers and Hammerstein, only that R & H themselves might have come up with rather similar numbers in a similar dramatic situation, as a response to Laura's question about which Follies songs were in the R & H "style." As to "I'm Still Here," I feel sure it's an autobiographical character song. It certainly can't be Carlotta's old Follies number (though "Can That Boy Foxtrot" might have been). The McCarthy references (among others) would have been out of period, the Thirties "nostalgia" references are too ironic and self-conscious to date from the Thirties themselves, and why would a woman who was young at the time be singing "I'm Still Here"? No, I think it must be a character song for the present-day Carlotta. | |
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| re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies | |
| Posted by: | showtunetrivia 06:33 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - keikekaze 06:20 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| The author of the article specifically mentioned R&H in terms of pastiche in FOLLIES, which is what had me scratching my head. I agree with your take on "I'm Still Here." Laura | |
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| I'm Still Here | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayTonyJ 05:35 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - EvFoDr 04:19 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| There's a line in I'm Still Here in which Sondheim seems to be very slyly commenting on De Carlo's career (as well as Carlotta's): "First you're another sloe-eyed vamp" (Salome, Where She Danced and other films)/ "Then someone's mother" (McLintock!)/ "then you're camp" (The Munsters). | |
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| re: I'm Still Here | |
| Posted by: | italianguy 08:21 am EST 01/21/14 |
| In reply to: | I'm Still Here - BroadwayTonyJ 05:35 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| Interesting observation. De Carlo was a beautiful woman but she was not afraid to play character parts. A wonderful talent. | |
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| re: I'm Still Here | |
| Posted by: | pierce 02:30 am EST 01/21/14 |
| In reply to: | I'm Still Here - BroadwayTonyJ 05:35 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| It's true - the "I'm Still Here" lyrics bring Yvonne de Carlo's career to mind, even if Sondheim wrote them with Joan Crawford in mind. | |
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| re: I'm Still Here | |
| Posted by: | italianguy 08:23 am EST 01/21/14 |
| In reply to: | re: I'm Still Here - pierce 02:30 am EST 01/21/14 |
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| Joan was always camp and a little bit scary. | |
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| re: I'm Still Here | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 11:19 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | I'm Still Here - BroadwayTonyJ 05:35 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| In fact, De Carlo's role as Lily in The Munsters covers all three bases: a sloe-eyed vamp(ire) who is Eddie Munster's) mother... and, goodness knows, De Carlo's performance was pure camp. | |
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| re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies | |
| Posted by: | joerialto 02:50 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - showtunetrivia 01:23 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| The version she would most like to see is the 2001 Roundabout mess?? Not the original Harold Prince production? Bizarre. | |
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| Don't forget the 2 people in the mezzanine who enthused the last revival was better... | |
| Posted by: | thtrgoer 03:17 pm EST 01/20/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Musicals we love: Sondheim's Follies - joerialto 02:50 pm EST 01/20/14 |
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| than the original, as reported here. Went remarkably unremarked. That's the kind of thing that got Mr. Charles, Late of Palm Beach, asked to leave New York City! | |
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