| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | BruceinIthaca 03:43 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - MikeR 03:38 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| General Cartwright isn't usually a singing role--maybe in the chorus of "Sit Down, You're Rockin' the Boat." | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 03:45 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - BruceinIthaca 03:43 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| Exactly. And I expect that singing to be better with Kaye than it would've been with Houdyshell. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | BruceinIthaca 07:14 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - MikeR 03:45 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| But in most productions, her voice simply blends with the others. I know, Mary Testa apparently was directed to turn it into her own cadenza, but that's not how it is written. Any actress who can carry a tune could be cast, if she acted it well. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | pierce 01:51 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - BruceinIthaca 07:14 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| But when you have a General Cartwright with a strong voice, she can really make her presence felt in "Sit Down" - and without adding cadenzas or distorting the song in any way. Ruth Williamson did it beautifully in this segment from Guys & Dolls (from the 1992 Tony Awards broadcast). | |
| Link | Sit Down You're Rocking The Boat |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 10:53 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - pierce 01:51 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| See, I totally disagree with you. Williamson's high C is very impressive, but it makes Nicely-Nicely's long F and A-natural at the very end sound anticlimactic. If someone has to sing that pedal high C, it should be Nicely-Nicely. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 12:34 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - LegitOnce 10:53 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| As others have pointed out, having General Cartwright take over "Sit Down, You're Rockin' the Boat" with a roof-raising solo is not in the original conception of the show. And aside from the fact that having her do that arguably steals Nicely-Nicely's thunder, it also strikes me as making the number feel too similar to "Brotherhood of Man" in that other, later show by Loesser. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | pierce 10:01 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - Michael_Portantiere 12:34 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I like General Cartwright's note, but I don't think it "steals" anything from Nicely-Nicely Johnson | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 10:11 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - pierce 10:01 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| Well, I think it "steals" from Nicely in a sense, but it's all a matter of perception. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | PlayWiz 07:45 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - BruceinIthaca 07:14 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| Yeah, it's not exactly Lily Garland. Ms. Kaye is always a fine presence and is a wonderfully talented performer, but this is practically a cameo appearance for her. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | FleetStreetBarber 04:29 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - MikeR 03:45 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| And one can only hope she won't be forced to utter, "Who's yo mama now?" as Mary Testa was forced to do in the dreadful Des McAnuff revival of a few years ago. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:39 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - FleetStreetBarber 04:29 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| That would be so bizarre coming from Judy Kaye that it might actually be funny (if still completely inadvisable). | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - MikeR 03:45 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| And of course, this show was from the era when singing didnt mean being able to scream like a pop star. Sarah Brown is the only true singing role in the show. Nicely Nicely comes in a close second. Robert Alda who originated Sky was a Robert Preston type 'singer'. Nathan isn't a 'singer'. Adelaid isn't a 'singer'. They were characters who could act and sing. A lost world. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:36 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| Yeah, but you still better have good singers for Adelaide, Sky and Nicely-Nicely. They need to seem like interesting people, too, but they gotta sing. Sky isn't rangy, but the voice better be pleasant and he better have a good sense of line. Adelaide is such a good role that a passable singer who's an excellent actress can get away with it, but someone who's an excellent singer and an excellent actress is better. Vivian Blaine was known much more for being a singer than an actress when she was cast and, according to some accounts, the role was then built up considerably for her when they saw she could also act. But the character is a singer, and Blaine was one of the best singers of her type in Broadway history. And Nicely-Nicely is mostly singing. He doesn't say a whole lot so he better sing well, especially when it gets to "Sit Down, You're Rocking the Boat." | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 05:26 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - AlanScott 04:36 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| But the character is a singer Indeed. Maybe the singing at the Hot Box doesn't need to be Carnegie hall quality, lol, but the fact is she IS a dancer/singer at the club. And indeed, I can't imagine a production where the Sky and Nicely don't have real singing ability. And if that last line of "Fugue For Tinhorns" is really going to land, you need a Benny and a Charlie who can deliver the goods too - not just hit the notes, but really SING that last "right here." Conversely, I've seen productions where indeed the Sarah must have been cast on her singing ability first - but the acting was sub par. So having a "singer" in the role is not all you need. As for Cartwright, as originally written, it's a non-singing role. (I don't know if she joined in with the ensemble by the end of "Sit Down" or not, but there are no solo moments of any kind.) The solo high C moment, added for the Lane/Prince revival, is really a stolen moment from the original version of "Brotherhood Of Man," when the also usually non-singing (until that moment) Miss Jones joins in with the song, and holds a high F over the men singing "Oh, that noble feeling..."). Which I suppose is why the Broderick revival of How To Succeed felt they had to do something else instead, so they made Miss Jones a "real" gospel singer. | |
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| And speaking of Benny . . . | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:46 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - Chromolume 05:26 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| Johnny Silver was never going to sing Cavaradossi or Tristan or even Eisenstein, but he had a good character tenor. For NBC's Television Opera Theatre in the 1950s, he sang Goro and Dr. Blind. | |
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| re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 05:33 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Nothing against Houdyshell, but from a singing perspective? Upgrade. (nm) - Chromolume 05:26 pm EDT 03/12/14 |
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| The solo high C moment, added for the Lane/Prince revival, is really a stolen moment from the original version of "Brotherhood Of Man," when the also usually non-singing (until that moment) Miss Jones joins in with the song, and holds a high F over the men singing "Oh, that noble feeling..."). Just so no one has to correct me on this, lol, I *do* know she sings before that moment in the song (she in fact starts the "oh, that noble feeling" section on her own, before the guys join in) - but it's the "holding the big high note over the full company" aspect of the number I was focusing on. ;-) | |
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