| MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | sergius 12:01 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| MOTHERS AND SONS is a standard problem or "social issue" play that's insufficiently dramatizied and wholly unconvincing. With the arguable exception of the mother, the characters are tracts, mere mouthpieces for positions that are sympathetic and well intentioned but blandly sincere and devoid of specificity pertaining to character and circumstance. It's a lazy play, thoroughly implausible and rigorously contrived. It relies entirely on the audience's sympathy and goodwill. As such, and even with sentiment and a fine Tyne Daly on its side, any feeling it generates is unearned. Perhaps in keeping with the mainstreaming of homosexuality in our cultural moment, there's something parochial about it. Additionally--and worse--the play is sometimes confoundingly simplistic and naive (Cal to his former partner's mother:: "We didn't deserve to be married! Maybe that's why AIDS happened." Really? This is baffling and unpersuasive as drama AND argument) MOTHERS AND SONS has no moral force that isn't pre-fabricated; it lacks guts. But rest assured, if the ride's a wee bit boulevard-bumpy, in the end, everyone basks in the glow of tolerance--acceptance even! | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | marshvale60 05:19 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - sergius 12:01 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| What completely bogus and incorrect analysis of every single moment in the play--including that quoted. | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 09:06 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - sergius 12:01 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| "Perhaps in keeping with the mainstreaming of homosexuality in our cultural moment, there's something parochial about it." I'm unclear about this statement. "Mainstreaming" is a glibly reductive way of describing a major civil rights struggle, one with almost daily sociopolitical ramifications (see Brewer, Jan). By labeling McNally's play "parochial," you seem to be suggesting a kind of narrow niche entertainment. Would one say that about "Raisin in the Sun" when it appeared? McNally is writing with great passion about a specific moment in history, one in which many artists are exploring seismic shifts in societal and individual views on homosexuality and their intersection. Is his play "parochial" because he writes with the insider's knowledge, and then speaks ex-cathedra? This is a playwright in his 70s who is writing what he knows. I respect your opinions, but I'm unclear about what you're taking McNally to task for, from a standpoint of "issue play," beyond your objections to his (supposed) sloth in terms of craft. Do you feel the play exploits its own topicality, and is unfair to its subject matter? Or pandering to an audience over-eager to see anything gay? | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 11:43 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - Delvino 09:06 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| Would one say that about "Raisin in the Sun" when it appeared? No, but I would say it about a cheap knockoff of "Raisin in the Sun" if it first appeared in 1990, i.e., more than 30 years since the subject matter was really risky and current. | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | marshvale60 05:27 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - LegitOnce 11:43 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| For those who care to listen, the subject matter is being explored in ways never previously discussed--AIDS and its ramifications, the current state of equality and the impact that HIV had on interpersonal relationships as well as the changes in the epidemic, i.e., those diagnosed before the cocktail and those after. For those of us who lived it and showed up, there is breathtaking specificity on that stage. It's a gorgeous piece of writing beautifully rendered. The very fact of its brilliance seems to anger certain people on this board--and that's worth looking at too. I couldn't recommend this piece more highly--for its language, its subject matter and its truthfulness. And for what it's worth, everyone I know who has seen it-and I do mean everyone--has discussed what a uniquely rich experience it has been. I'm thrilled it's on Broadway. | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | wmdmcree 05:42 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - marshvale60 05:27 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I am happy you had a great experience, I want everyone to get excited about the theatre they are seeing and enjoy the amazing things the art form has to offer. And I'm glad M&S talks about the issues you describe, always glad to know that those conversations are valued and being offered. But I, many others on this board, and the people who attended the production with me did not find M&S to be a great play or a great evening of theatre. Just a different opinion, doesn't invalidate yours, but is no less true because it comes to different conclusions. And yes, I have lived through all of the horrors of the AIDS crisis from its beginnings in the early 80's when I was in my late twenties through today, so I am not immune to the enormous emotional connection to those times and our place in the world today. | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | davei2000 01:19 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - LegitOnce 11:43 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I wouldn't be so harsh, but I do think Mothers and Sons seems like a rewrite of Andre's Mother, which I loved, but less believable since it takes place 30 years later. I don't know why someone who has evolved so little in that time would drop by for a conversation with someone she basically abhors, although it does seem she needs an update on gay life. (And she never heard of the AIDS quilt?) Actually, I haven't seen it in too long but I remember her being softer as Sada Thompson played her on PBS... | |
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| re: "And she never heard of the AIDS quilt?" | |
| Posted by: | Dale 05:58 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - davei2000 01:19 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| It's like her line "Doesn't anyone remember "Li'l Abner" anymore?". Not when everyone else in the play is under the age of 35. | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | sergius 10:53 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - Delvino 09:06 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| Thanks for your response. By "parochial" I meant a kind or degree of narrow-mindedness. To me, in its celebration of recent civil rights advances, including marriage equality, the play ignores important aspects and goals of what used to be called the gay liberation movement, aims that are perhaps unrelated to varieties of assimilation. Of course, it's completely fair for McNally to be disinterested in this question. It's disappointing to me, but it's not what his play is about. This said, my major complaint about the play is that it's implausible and contrived. I think it sacrifices a more challenging and rigorous dramaturgy to facile, trope-like sentiment. But I appreciate your remarks. | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 11:00 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - sergius 10:53 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| could you elaborate on the "important aspects and goals" you find ignored? | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:21 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - Delvino 09:06 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| It seems to me there is a clash between the idea of mainstreaming and of parochial. The reference to both simultaneously would appear to reflect a crankiness with the message and the messenger, and it seems to arise from both perspectives on the explored issues. Does the play explore its subjects in a fresh way? I think so. I join you in not really understanding the "parochial" label here. First of all, a play can be parochial and still great. Many great plays could be framed as parochial if that were some criticism. It seems to me that the underlying sentiment of the mainstream/parochial mention is that, not that gays are mainstream, they need to shut the fuck up. That notion is both inaccurate in source and misguided in execution. | |
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| MOTHERS AND SONS ... | |
| Posted by: | flaguy 08:55 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - sergius 12:01 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I saw it yesterday afternoon. And I felt like I was watching a Holocaust play, reminding us to never forget what happened thirty years ago. And me, as a "Holocaust" survivor, was not pleased to be reminded of something I already can't forget, and all those friends/victims of that plague that I personally lost, who I'll never forget. And I said to myself "This was written for my sister in Lansing, Michigan, to sit through. Not ME!" So I left the theatre a little angry. And no, I don't think it's written all that well. But ... as I made my way down Eighth Avenue to catch my cross town bus, I found I had to turn away from the oncoming crowds of people and pretend to look in those crumby shop windows. Because I was crying. CRYING! It's not a great play. It's an important play. | |
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| PS ... | |
| Posted by: | flaguy 09:43 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | MOTHERS AND SONS ... - flaguy 08:55 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| PS -- Funny/sad. That sophisticated New York preview audience gasped a little when the two men finally kissed late in the play. In 2014. | |
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| re: PS ... | |
| Posted by: | bwayjoey 10:56 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | PS ... - flaguy 09:43 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I still remember the gasps at the kiss in "Kiss of the Spider Woman" in 1993! You'd think people would be over it by now. | |
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| re: PS ... | |
| Posted by: | John_Patti 02:48 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: PS ... - bwayjoey 10:56 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| The gasp was for the mother who was coming out of the bathroom. The audience was actually being sympathtic and anticipating her response. | |
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| Exactly the reaction was concern the mother would be nasty | |
| Posted by: | UWS_JIM 04:57 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: PS ... - John_Patti 02:48 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| Rather than shock at them kissing. SPOILERS As a 46 year old gay man it was the comments about the loss of people from AIDS that moved me, especially the thought of how some people were infected only slightly too early to be saved. | |
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| I guess I don't find an engaging one act play to be a lazy play | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 01:21 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - sergius 12:01 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I find plays that break the fourth wall to be rather lazy with some exceptions--buyer & cellar for example. It's a lot easier to just tell a point of view via the fourth wall. To have characters interact is a lot harder to write and more engaging to watch. I think survivor guilt and finding happiness to be relevant today in the gay community. There were a lot of ideas and opinions relayed on stage. Not just a one message play. And the sway of my empathy for some characters changed during the show--that's rare for me. | |
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| re: I guess I don't find an engaging one act play to be a lazy play | |
| Posted by: | mikem 07:15 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | I guess I don't find an engaging one act play to be a lazy play - dramedy 01:21 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| dramedy, you're saying that Buyer and Cellar is one of the exceptions, not an example of lazy writing, right? I'm not sure I'm parsing your sentence correctly. | |
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| Yes | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 10:13 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: I guess I don't find an engaging one act play to be a lazy play - mikem 07:15 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I don't see how you could write b$c without breaking the wall. Probably a better example is the glass menagerie, which t.williams frames as a memory play to break the wall. I wonder if that was one of the first times done. The play could have been written without the prologue and occasionally statements to the audience, but it works in that play. | |
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| re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) | |
| Posted by: | charles1055 12:51 am EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - sergius 12:01 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| "With the arguable exception of the mother, the characters are tracts, mere mouthpieces for positions that are sympathetic and well intentioned but blandly sincere and devoid of specificity pertaining to character and circumstance." I've heard this criticism leveled at works before and I'm always a little confused as to what the complaint is. An entire generation of LGBT people were devastated by the AIDS epidemic in the last two decades of the 20th century. The ones that were "lucky enough" to survive were left with lifelong issues. This isn't a "tract," this is many, many people's experiences. Over the past few years the entire LGBT community is grappling with the ramifications of marriage equality. I came out only ten years ago and never imagined that I'd have a husband or the possibility of children. Gay divorce is on the rise, same sex parenting is occurring on unprecedented levels. Kids are coming out during puberty. This is all very new. Again, this isn't a "tract," this is the experience of almost everyone I know. I could see how parts of Mother & Sons feels like things we've seen before, a sort of Torch Song/The Normal Heart meets Next Fall, but I think the genius of this play is the seamless way it integrates both of these narratives. I guess it could be more "interesting," Tyne Daly could be a retired carnie and Bobby Steggert could be a mute, but I don't think that would ring true. I really, really enjoyed this show. I felt for all the characters despite how much I despised some of their choices. This is a very, very good play and I'd seriously recommend that people go see it and not stay away because some ATC thought it was "a tract." | |
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| Agree go see Mothers & Sons | |
| Posted by: | John_Patti 03:00 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MOTHERS AND SONS Tonight (Possible Spoiler) - charles1055 12:51 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I saw last night's performance and it still haunts me. The number of themes and topics and points of history it covers within such a simple pretext is quite stunning. A perfect play to put in a time capsule showing where we are, where we've come from and how far we still have to go. History is changing so quickly for people like the Tyne Daily character that they've been spun off their axis. For me it was mesmerizing to watch and gave me new found respect for those who seem to be getting left behind with each succeeding generation. | |
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