| Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Paul_Gordon 12:17 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | The last great musical to open on Broadway - JayBee 08:17 am EDT 03/13/14 |
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| While I think there have been other great musicals since "A Little Night Music" opened on B'way -- I do agree that it is a perfect musical. The score and book are flawless IMHO. I was only able to see "the tour" of the B'way show and not the original production, but to my young eyes and ears, the show was a revelation and still is. Accessing musicals we love is all about our own personal taste, and for me, "A Little Night Music" (and specifically Hal Prince's production) will always be a masterpiece. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 03:35 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | Good call, JayBee - Paul_Gordon 12:17 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I agree that it's a flawless musical... but, to my chagrin, not everyone does. Not everyone agrees that the book is flawless or that the musical as a whole is perfect. I think they're wrong, but they certainly exist and they existed when the show opened and the exist now, and I don't just mean a few people. So even though I think it's perfect, and one of the great musicals ever written, I don't think it's unanimously agreed upon that it's "perfect" or the last great or flawless or perfect show to open in NYC. Many, myself included, would call Sweeney Todd perfect and flawless. I might even call Chicago flawless. Personally, I'd call Sunday in the Park flawless and perfect. Maybe would say it about Once On This Island, maybe Nine, maybe Dreamgirls, maybe Assassins, maybe Les Miz, maybe Hairspray. I'd also say it about Caroline or Change. It's hard to find a show everyone agrees is perfect. I'd think you'd find no one arguing about West Side Story, or on the other side, The Music Man. Yet there are haters of both shows. The King and I? My Fair Lady? Fiddler? Cabaret? Haters. Perhaps the only show I've never heard a bad word about was Guys & Dolls and I'm sure there are people that find it shallow or not funny. | |
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| Taste | |
| Posted by: | Paul_Gordon 10:42 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Chazwaza 03:35 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| Yes, it all comes down to personal taste in the end, as there indeed is no actual definition of a perfect or flawless musical. For me, A LIttle Night Music is exquisitely written (and my favorite Hugh Wheeler book, even more so than Sweeney), and has taught me personally (for better or for worse) more about the art of writing musicals than any other show. But I also agree that Guys and Dolls is probably the most universally "agreed upon" great musical. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | PlayWiz 09:25 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Chazwaza 03:35 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| The non-singing opening of "Guys and Dolls" goes on too long. Start the F'ing "Fugue for Tinhorns" already! :) | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 11:32 am EDT 03/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - PlayWiz 09:25 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| "The non-singing opening of 'Guys and Dolls" goes on too long.'" Not when it's staged and choreographed by Michael Kidd, it doesn't! See the movie. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 08:42 pm EDT 03/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Michael_Portantiere 11:32 am EDT 03/14/14 |
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| Indeed. I think the opening sequence of Guys And Dolls is pretty cool. Overture, Runyonland, "Fugue For Tinhorns," "Follow The Fold" - all without a single break in the music, and all before one single line of dialogue. The original Runyonland music (not the reinvented, ultra-short version for the 1992 revival) is also clever in the way it helps introduce some of the musical themes, including "Fugue For Tinhorns" (so that by the time they sing it, the tune has already been planted in your head). PlayWiz - would you criticise the Prologue from West Side Story in the same way? I thought not, lol. No, I'm not trying to say "Runyonland" is up to the same kind of musical artistry - but I do think Runyonland deserves its due. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | PlayWiz 11:16 pm EDT 03/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Chromolume 08:42 pm EDT 03/14/14 |
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| In the film, Kidd's choreography is great, thought the artificial sets bother me, though they are used whenever characters are on the street throughout the film which detracts from the film. I've seen productions without the Kidd choreography where sometimes it seems to go on too long. I realize the stage directions are in the script for a lot of the action, but not many choreographers come up to Kidd's artistry. Also saw a wonderful production by the National Theatre in London which during the Overture had the credits of the cast in lights given like a movie, which was rather clever. The rest of the staging very well done, and Bob Hoskins and Julie McKenzie were superb. No problemo for WSS. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 04:44 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Chazwaza 03:35 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| Very well put, Chazwaza. It's well worth noting that a show can be "great" without being "perfect," aside from the fact that, obviously, definitions of "greatness" and "perfection" vary. MY FAIR LADY is unquestionably a great show, but it's far from perfect (all those grammatical errors in the lyrics, and several words and expressions that people in England would never use). WEST SIDE STORY is a masterpiece, but some of Laurents' dialogue is not very good, even if his book is great overall. And so on. I do agree with you that I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything critical about GUYS AND DOLLS, and that show is pretty much universally regarded as great. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | PlayWiz 09:30 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Michael_Portantiere 04:44 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| Nathan Detroit needs another song in the Broadway version. Plus the guy on the OCR singing "More I Cannot Wish You" might have been effective on stage, but I nearly always used to bypass it on my LP. So there! (Plus my comment above about the opening). Otherwise, I love it. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 10:43 am EDT 03/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - PlayWiz 09:30 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| As I'm sure you know, one reason why Nathan sings so little in the show is that Sam Levene, the original Nathan, could barely sing at all. If you just hand some of the singing lines in "The Oldest Established" and the title song to Nathan, I think that plus "Sue Me" gives him an appropriate amount to sing for that character, since he's obviously there much more for comedy than for beautiful singing. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 04:52 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Michael_Portantiere 04:44 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| However Guys & Dolls hardly identified as a musical "for adults" specifically, the way ALNM is. If JayBee is looking for a musical that is both perfect and for adults, it's going to be hard. But I still say Sweeney Todd is as perfect as ALNM (and most would say it's far better) and is very much for adults specifically. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 04:55 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Chazwaza 04:52 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I have a hard time figuring out what exactly a musical "for adults" means, but I certainly agree with you that SWEENEY is as great a show in its own way as ALNM, if not even greater. | |
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| re: Good call, JayBee | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 04:59 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Good call, JayBee - Michael_Portantiere 04:55 pm EDT 03/13/14 |
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| I guess it means dealing with specifically adult themes and situations... meaning not things people under 16 could even understand, or subjects that wouldn't be appropriate for people under 16. Family-friendly shows like Guys & Dolls and The Music Man probably do not qualify. Though they're certainly more "for adults" than Annie, for example. They aren't for kids but they can be enjoy by kids. Into the Woods I think is for adults, but can certainly be enjoyed on many important levels by kids. It's one of the few shows that I think successfully lives in both those worlds. | |
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