| RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayLouBlaze 10:23 am EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | BRANTLEY on ROCKY: a disingenous joke of a review - BroadwayLouBlaze 05:14 pm EDT 03/14/14 |
|
| |
| So I am thinking about my post about Brantley's ROCKY review. Now I have never poster before. Thought I would give it a shot. Told...actually laughed at and warned that if I say anything against someone hating the show, that I am spoiling the fun here. People will come after me. I will be called a shill or said to have some involvement in the show. They were right. Maybe I should have listened. But you know what...this is actually sort of fun. Anyway, in re-reading what I originally posted, I have to say that yeah...it sounds like I have something to do with the show. That I am too close. Well, though not involved with the show, I am perhaps too close to the industry.i have seen first hand, how brutally difficult it is to create, not to mention sustain a show on Broadway. So when Brantley said that the audience was in a couch potato stupor, I guess the proverbial straw broke. Clearly he was bored. For many that seems to be the case....certainly among critics. Now who in the world can ever say what an audience truly feels. You could certainly recognize the biased applause. Fans of the movie, friends of the cast and so on. Easy to spot. Also, if an audience is in a stupor you pretty much know it. Again,easy to spot. . He knows,I know, the audience there that night knows that was not the case. Also, He makes the audience comment in the most read part of any review. The first paragraphs (or the last sentence). He knows what he is doing. So....in my opinion, his opening remarks were designed to damage the financial prospects of the production. Another poster was right in saying that his review was a fair assessment. Now that I have calmed down I realize this. He did not like the show and except for the opening about the audience he makes a good case. But being at the same performance...The couch potato stupor stuff was just too much for me. Ok...I promise I will stop now. I will let it go. Time move on. I do actually have a life. Sorry if I dampened the hate feast. Best of luck to you all and thank you for spending so much time talking about Broadway, even if to trash it. I can totally see how one can become addicted to this. | |
| reply to this message | | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 03:02 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 10:23 am EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| There is something to be said for calling out many of the posters on this site for writing in a way that often feels like - whether or not it is intentioned - rude and condescending. But doing so in a way that is equally rude and condescending accomplishes little. | |
| reply to this message | | |
| This would be a boring site if we only said positive things | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 12:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 10:23 am EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| About the shows we like. I think many posters here are honest and love some shows and hat e others. I've been consistent in my rocky view thati didn't care for it but acknowledge the people around me loved it. I really like bridges and that is going to flop. I liked mothers & sons also, but others haven't. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: This would be a boring site if we only said positive things | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:22 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | This would be a boring site if we only said positive things - dramedy 12:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| more to the point, do we really want reviewers (here or in the press) to sugar coat how they feel? Do we want that morning TV vibe? | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 10:23 am EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| A few quick reactions to your "rethinking: 1. No one gets extra points for how "brutally difficult" it is. That goes with the territory. We also do not cast actors for roles in shows based on how tough the life of an actor is in New York. Laying off of criticism on that basis is an appeal to mediocrity. 2. Brantley does not "design" his reviews to "damage the financial prospects." Sorry, but notwithstanding your claimed "closeness" to the industry, that's just naive. Critics like and dislike, just like everyone else, and sometimes, just like the rest of us, they fucking hate something. This is one of those cases. 3. Judging "stupor" is an art form of its own. The chief critic of the Times is well aware that press agents have seeded the audience with enthusiastic (often too enthusiastic) people. But people who go to the theatre a couple hundred times a year know the difference in enthusiasm and stupor, observe whether the audience is checking out during stretches between exciting moments and remembering that, on Broadway, audiences are the opposite of tough-they applaud, they stand, they text-without regard to whether they end up loving a show. By all means root for a show if you are motivated to your heart's content. But you do yourself no favors when you attribute ulterior motives to others for expressing their feelings. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayLouBlaze 03:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - ryhog 12:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| I was warned this was addictive. I feel foolish for even responding to this. But....guess I am hooked. But I really am going to try and stop after this. Okee dokee.....here goes, 1.not asking for points. Huh? Do I need points?Not sure where that comes from. But ok. Just clarifying that no ...not part of show...part of the industry. That seems to bother you in some way? 2."design" of review comment. Of course, I am not suggesting that critics sit around and ponder ways to hurt a shows financial status. But... And this will set you off for reason... I know a lot of these folks. Sat around at bars with them....had actual dialogue...and guess what...that is often what they do. Maybe it has nothing to do with the finance of the show but.....they say things for certain reasons. Sure mostly these guys are just writing what they think/feel. But...this is a real head turner, do you really not believe that they are are not aware of what they are saying....when they they say it, where in the review it appears. huh???? I am sorry...it simply happens all the time. I am sorry if you do not believe that. A good example is Brantley pan of ROCKY HORROR. The last sentence...an absolute swipe at Jordan Roth. Read it and maybe it will help u understand what I am saying about the couch potato stupor. WOW....though I doubt it. And yet AGAIN...you mention my being in the business. What is with that??? Ok...you need to call me naive. So that is supposed to sting???? i mean I am just talking about things I have seen happen. and lets see, you are telling me they did not..i guess. But twice you do the industry thing. I mean did someone fire you from this business. Do you want a career and don't have one? What the hell is going on here. Wow...forgot...I was told not to do that. If I am going to post something...I was warned..." Do not let them know you are in the business. They just can't stand it." This is trip. LOL!!! 3. Ok...babe.....u are just all over the place there. But let me try...the part about knowing the difference between enthusiasm and stupor. I completely agree. Guess who else knows the difference Ben Brantley. That's the problem I have with his opening statement. He knows even accounting for the plants in the audience, that they were not in a stupor. Oh and commenting on the audience reaction is not exactly "expressing your feelings" by the way. Nor does it have anything to do with the creation or execution of a shows book, score,set, costumes, lights, direction, etc. which is of course why a critic is at the theater to begin with. Oh tiger...come get me. Tell me what I don 't know. Oh oh oh....but more importantly, please, please , please, tell me what you know. LOL!!! I know this kind of nonsense goes on here. I just Can't believe I am wasting a Saturday afternoon doing this. Again...I really want to stop. But this is fun. We'll...but , I don't know Ryhog... Sorta sad. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayLouBlaze 05:25 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 03:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| Okay..will not be sad. This whole thread has pretty much run itself into ground. Later. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 03:57 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 03:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| your post has a lot of "the lady doth protest too much" going on, but I'm just gonna ignore that. nothing in my first item had to do with any industry status. No clue where you got that idea. It had to do with your thinking that shows need leniency because of how "brutal" it is to get a show up. That's just an invitation to mediocrity. I have no idea if you are in the business or not-you said you were "close" whatever that means. You were the one who kept mentioning it. Lots of folks here are in the business, lots are not. I don't care if you are or not and dont think most people do. It's not about you, not about me. It is about ideas, opinions and facts. Are critics aware that their words can end up punishing a show (or helping it)? Sure. Do they sometimes really fucking hate some show (just like you or I do)? You bet. Do I think Brantley wrote what he wrote where he wrote it for the reason you suggested? Nope. I am not a fan of critics "reporting" on audiences and wish Brantley hadn't and didn't. I think (as someone else wrote) we all come away with different impressions of audience reactions. Do I think Brantley made his up for the reason you state? No. I saw a different performance, and my sense was that the audience's attention ebbed and flowed. I would not have called it a stupor, but we can all focus on what we want, and take away from it what we want. And when a show is a deadly dull as I found this one, until the eleventh hour, I think it is easy to sense that feeling around you. If, instead, it excited you, you might feel that energy more. Whatever you choose to do, have fun, and don't be sad. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 03:36 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 03:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| I know a lot of these folks. Sat around at bars with them....had actual dialogue...and guess what...that is often what they do. Maybe it has nothing to do with the finance of the show but.....they say things for certain reasons. You do realize you sound like you're drunk, don't you? | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayLouBlaze 03:41 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - LegitOnce 03:36 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| Lol. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 03:30 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 03:19 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| "Sorta sad" is right. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 10:27 am EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 10:23 am EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| "Now who in the world can ever say what an audience truly feels," he writes, going to to tell us what the audience truly felt. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 11:30 am EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - LegitOnce 10:27 am EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| "Now who in the world can ever say what an audience truly feels," he writes, going on to tell us what [he thinks] the audience truly felt. Exactly. BroadwayLouBlaze is trying to have it both ways. I don't buy it. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayLouBlaze 03:29 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - Chromolume 11:30 am EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| Really????? What an audience truly feels and identifying what Certain pockets of enthusiasm are about is sorta two different things to me. But...hell, have at it. Yeah....I'm not buying any of this either.lol. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 03:58 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - BroadwayLouBlaze 03:29 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| These were the two oxymoronic statements LegitOnce and I were referring to - both in the same paragraph from your above post: Now who in the world can ever say what an audience truly feels. Also, if an audience is in a stupor you pretty much know it. Again,easy to spot. . He knows,I know, the audience there that night knows that was not the case. So, on one hand you admit it's not reall possible to say what an audience feels, but then you turn around and say what you thought the audience was feeling (or, at least, NOT feeling). Is there not a contradiction there? "He's right and he's right? How can they both be right?..." ;-) | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayLouBlaze 05:05 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: RETHINKING SOME OF MY ORIGINAL POST - Chromolume 03:58 pm EDT 03/15/14 |
|
| |
| Sorry....I mean no disrespect here but I think it's time to drop this. We are sort of running this into the ground. sorry if it seemed contradictory. Maybe i was trying to suggest a little something too nuanced and am just a bad writer. Clearly, i am not getting my point across or you have made a choice not to get it. Whatever the case may be....wish you well. Thanks. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
All That Chat is intended for the discussion of
theatre news and opinion
subject to the terms and conditions of the Terms of Service. (Please take all off-topic discussion to private email.)
Please direct technical questions/comments to webmaster@talkinbroadway.com and policy questions to TBAdmin@talkinbroadway.com.
[ Home | On the Rialto | The Siegel Column | Cabaret | Tony Awards | Book Reviews | Great White Wayback Machine ]
[ Broadway Reviews | Barbara and Scott: The Two of Clubs | Sound Advice | Restaurant Revue | Off Broadway | Funding Talkin' Broadway ]
[ Broadway 101 | Spotlight On | Talkin' Broadway | On the Boards | Regional | Talk to Us! | Search Talkin' Broadway ]
Terms of Service
[ © 1997 - 2014 www.TalkinBroadway.com, Inc. ]
Time to render: 0.953570 seconds.