| Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 01:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I haven't seen the show yet, but from everything I've read and videos I've seen... it seems like the better fit would have been BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. It is also a haunting, aching love story about two lonely people trying to find something before it's too late, etc etc... it is the kind of story that lends itself to the kind of score it sounds like JRB wrote for BRIDGES, but the property would be MUCH more interesting and of interest to the public (and especially the Broadway audience) these days, and it would have been more newsworthy and headline grabbing, the casting would be more interesting, and they'd sell plenty of tickets to people who just want to see what it's like. Unlike BRIDGES which I think made comparatively little impact as a film and has been around for a long time. This has been the thought that keeps coming into my head when I read comments and reviews about Bridges and it just makes me wish that's what he'd done instead. (I know someone recently did an opera of it that wasn't terribly well received, but either way that's a different animal) | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | FrankF 12:10 am EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 01:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| For the record, I LOVED Bridges... I think it's a beautiful score. I think it's terrific show. And the performances are top notch. Pasquale has one of the best male voices I have ever heard on the NY stage. And maybe you will love it too if you ever see it and hear it fully in context. As for Brokeback..., sure, JRB could probably write a great score for that too. But don't put down the score for yourself (and let other decide what you like for you) before you've seen it. It's quite wonderful. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | kern 07:21 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 01:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| it seems like the better fit would have been BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN....the property would be MUCH more interesting and of interest to the public (and especially the Broadway audience) these days. Are you saying that when it comes to the Broadway musical homosexual relationships per se are more interesting and commercial than heterosexual ones? | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:32 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 01:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| Annie Proulx would have had to agree. And Brown would have had to have the idea before the opera was commissioned in 2008. And although the opera wasn't well received, I know at least one person who loved it. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 09:55 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 05:32 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I watched an hour of it, viewable on line, and found the production exquisite, the casting spot on, the libretto wanting and the music insufferably inaccessible. I had no problem with these men singing. Yet the emotional impact of the story - to me decidedly large enough in scale to be operatic - was held hostage to the chilly, melody-free music. Proulx has famously said that she felt the (exquisite) Oscar-winning score by Gustavo Santaolalla was sentimental; moving in the opposite direction created an almost cerebral take that to me undermined the pathos. The film score, ironically is lean, spare, minimalist, hardly John Williams; yet it is infused with feeling. Brown might have written a haunting musical, and I find the idea compelling. "Parade" revealed a composer unaffraid to make people sing in any circumstance. "Brokeback" invites both daring and tradition, a star-crossed lovers tale with a tragic ending, more Puccini than Berg. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 10:03 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Delvino 09:55 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| Okay, maybe Berg was wrong. Bartok? Glass? | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 01:22 am EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Delvino 10:03 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| With my limited musical knowledge, I'd say that Berg is a good comparison. Unquestionably Wuorinen's style generally and in Brokeback Mountain is much closer to Berg than to Bartok or Glass. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | lordofspeech 06:32 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 05:32 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I know at least one regular NY theatre audience member who told me he LOVED "Bridges." So, critics aren't the only word in town. Look at WICKED, which the critics took issue with. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 06:48 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - lordofspeech 06:32 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I know people who loved Bridges. I admired much of it while wishing some things had been treated a bit differently. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | ptownguy 07:05 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 06:48 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I agree. Saw it last night . I wish they had not devoted so much time on the family, neighbors, etc. When it was just Francesca and Robert on stage, it really soared and their singing was incredible. It might have worked better if they had used the movie scenario. Never read the book -- don't know if it was different. Looking forward to the release of the CD. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 07:16 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - ptownguy 07:05 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I think it's important to devote time to the family and neighbors, but many agree with you. Most of all I wish that I felt I really got to know who Robert is. It seemed to me that he's the person we're expected to feel most for at the end, yet he's sort of a cipher in the writing. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | ilw 12:34 am EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 07:16 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I agree that Robert is a cipher, and this made it hard for me to get completely invested in the story. This problem is mentioned in David Barbour's review, which I think describes the strengths and weaknesses of the show very well. Unlike the book, the show is really Francesca's story, which was a good decision, since she is a more believable character than Robert. | |
| Link | David Barbour review of BRIDGES |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | ptownguy 08:30 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 07:16 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I do think the family should be part of the story too. I just liked the way it was done in the film with the adult children discovering who their mother really was and what she gave up for them. The inevitable case of comparing one medium to another. Nonetheless, this show does deserve to be seen and I really hope it finds an audience. The audience certainly liked it last night. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 09:27 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - ptownguy 08:30 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| The audience with whom I saw it during previews seemed to like it a lot, too. I heard several very positive comments during intermission and after the show. I think this is a show that could have a nice run if word of mouth can take hold. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Ncassidine 02:17 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 01:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I haven't seen that movie in quite some years, but it occurs to me that those characters don't really want to sing. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 02:26 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Ncassidine 02:17 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I think that's a narrow view of the characters and the musical form. I think those characters are desperate to sing... and I think there's a way to musicalize what isn't going on in their actual dialogue. I know that's one of the criticisms people had of the opera, that they didn't want to sing, but I still think I can hear them singing JRB music. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 06:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 02:26 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| "I know that's one of the criticisms people had of the opera, that they didn't want to sing." One of the reasons why an opera might be felt to be more appropriate is because they are singing all the time, no one suddenly starts to sing because he must express himself lyrically. And in opera the orchestra can tell us what's going on underneath a vocal line that may seem relatively inexpressive. This can happen in musicals, but opera perhaps permits or encourages it more. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 07:00 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 06:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I guess one way to approach it is for everyone to be singing except the two guys... who only sing when they finally get together, and they try to sing with their wives, etc, but the song is always wrong or just sung by the wife when they sing together. It certainly has the ability to be beautiful or exceptionally silly. | |
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| what a fascinating thread | |
| Posted by: | jero 08:40 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 07:00 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| who sings? creative team ho.... One of my favorite moments in theater was at The Secret Garden and that quartet and suddenly you hear that small yet large voice crying out "I heard someone crying." I couldn't find her on stage but OH... viscerally.. it was surely something to sing about. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 07:04 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 07:00 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| Well, I think one sings, the other doesn't. ;) Jack sings, Ennis doesn't. But that's very Do I Hear a Waltz? (or at least what Sondheim thought might be a workable idea). | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | PatrickHSF 05:49 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 02:26 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| Part of Enis' tragic character to me is his inability to express himself. It would take a shrewd composer to give him a voice and vocalize his feelings while showing the pain of his keeping his emotions hidden and inside. | |
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| I adore you.. A SHREWD COMPOSER. | |
| Posted by: | jero 08:43 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - PatrickHSF 05:49 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| isn't that what everyone on this board craves? | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 07:01 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - PatrickHSF 05:49 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| And yet, isn't that a good use of song? To be his inner thoughts, juxtaposed with his simple and sparse choice of words and inability to express himself that way to others? I think it could be very effective. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | lordofspeech 08:21 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 07:01 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| The puppeteer in CARNIVAL, someone who cannot express himself in person, has two great soliloquy songs. That might be the way to go for a character who doesn't express himself to others. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 10:49 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - lordofspeech 08:21 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| "The puppeteer in CARNIVAL, someone who cannot express himself in person, has two great soliloquy songs. That might be the way to go for a character who doesn't express himself to others." Excellent point. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Logan69 02:16 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 01:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I, too, wish that had happened. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 02:00 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chazwaza 01:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| "I know someone recently did an opera of it that wasn't terribly well received." Yes, unfortunately, the person who wrote the music for the opera writes the kind of music that some critics admire but that no one else wants to hear. I agree with you, the idea of JRB adapting BROKEBACK as a musical is very intriguing and full of potential. Too bad it will presumably never happen. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:29 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Michael_Portantiere 02:00 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| "Yes, unfortunately, the person who wrote the music for the opera writes the kind of music that some critics admire but that no one else wants to hear." I want to hear it. James Levine seems to like it. Some prominent musicians seem to like it because they play it. People used to say stuff like this about Mahler and Bartok. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 05:40 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 05:29 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I was employing hyperbole to make a point :-) That said, I really don't think this opera or Wuorinen's music will stand the test of time. And in my opinion, there's no comparison to Mahler and Bartok whatsoever -- even though I realize you meant in terms of the reception of the music rather than quality. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 08:30 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Michael_Portantiere 05:40 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| The more apt comparison might be Jason Robert Brown. Outside of a small clique, the hyperbolic "no one" wants to hear his extant oeuvre, and it is at least as reasonable to say his music will not stand the test of time. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 10:46 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - ryhog 08:30 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I completely disagree. Although there's no way of knowing for sure, I suspect that Jason Robert Brown's music will stand the test of time far, far better than Charles Wuorinen's. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 09:04 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - ryhog 08:30 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| The more apt comparison might be Jason Robert Brown. Outside of a small clique, the hyperbolic "no one" wants to hear his extant oeuvre, and it is at least as reasonable to say his music will not stand the test of time. Ok - I'm curious. What musical theatre composers today do you feel DO get a good response outside of this small clique - composers whose musical theatre scores WILl stand the test of time? | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 09:30 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Chromolume 09:04 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| The tougher question would be if you add "under 80." As asked though, I guess I'd say Sondheim, Kander, Herman. Maybe a couple more out there if I think harder, but I think you can see the problem. Reluctantly, probably Schwartz and Menken, and maybe Shaiman and Lopez. Here is another way of asking approximately the same question: if you approach someone who isn't "into" musical theatre the way a lot of folks here are to name a JRB song, or even identify it if they hear it (without being pegged to him) what would it be? My intention is not to pick on JRB per se, but to examine the prospects of these composers vis a vis someone like Charles Wuorinen. | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 10:37 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - ryhog 09:30 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| Seems to me like we all had a similar discussion a few weeks ago. ;-) | |
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| re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 06:34 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - Michael_Portantiere 05:40 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| "That said, I really don't think this opera or Wuorinen's music will stand the test of time." — Michael Portantiere "A life-long devotion is measured after the fact." — Dr. Sloper in both Washington Square and The Heiress. (I hope that quoting Dr. Sloper is not as bad as Alan Simpson quoting Iago.) "And in my opinion, there's no comparison to Mahler and Bartok whatsoever . . . " — Michael Portantiere Clearly. ". . .even though I realize you meant in terms of the reception of the music rather than quality." Both perhaps. | |
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| For some reason, I thought you had heard it... | |
| Posted by: | garyd 05:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Jason Robert Brown should have adapted BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN instead of BRIDGES... - AlanScott 05:29 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| I thought I had posted the webcast sight here and we discussed it but I guess not. We saw it opening night. I admit I am not a fan of his style of music but I found this to be particularly dry. | |
| Link | http://www.medici.tv/#!/brokeback-mountain-wuorinen-teatro-real-madrid-titus-engel-ivo-van-hove |
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| re: For some reason, I thought you had heard it... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 06:41 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
| In reply to: | For some reason, I thought you had heard it... - garyd 05:39 pm EDT 03/16/14 |
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| Someone posted the webcast here and we did discuss it. I thought it was terrific. Sorry that you didn't like it more. But I presume you didn't make the trip primarily to see it (although perhaps you did). | |
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