| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 02:17 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - Zelgo 12:40 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| the ones with the proper training don't. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | ravnquest1 07:44 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 02:17 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| I don't agree with this. This is a human element and training doesn't really factor in. There is no one set answer, but I think knowing when to leave a long running show (especially a tour) is an important thing and actor must learn- and obviously that varies from person to person. A responsive audience helps everyone get through each show, and makes most people in and on a show happier to be there. A poor or non-responsive audience or series of crowds drags you down, especially if you are in a show that relies on the strength of the comedy and audience reaction to work. The quality of the backstage life and management of the production is a major factor also. Some might be surprised how poorly managed or how poor morale is on some of the long-running hits, both on the road and on Broadway. If you don't feel you're welcomed or supported or the production is not cared about from up above, it can drag a show (and a tour) down. I've done tours where no member of the creative team ever visited after opening. The performances evolved and devolved and the backstage morale was terrible most of the time. Many, many factors in play on this. And those folks just punching the clock and cashing their checks year after year on the same production usually aren't well-liked. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 04:33 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 02:17 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| Disagreed. Training has nothing to do with how one feels about their job. What I would say (and probably, yes, what you meant to say) is that actors with proper training have the potential to know how to keep their performance standards up regardless of how they feel. (But there's no guarantee that they WILL, of course. Though most actors, I think, find the way to do it.) | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 04:47 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - Chromolume 04:33 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| patti lupone would disagree with you. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 07:04 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 04:47 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| I don't remember. What exactly does she say on the subject? | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 07:09 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - AlanScott 07:04 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| i think it's in the book. she talks about training in relation to keeping performances fresh. since she is talking about boredom i assume its in the part about ALW. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 07:57 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 07:09 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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Let's see...Les Miz is a long show. And it was a long time between my cues. One night a couple of months into the Palace run, I got really tired of listening to the score. It happens. One just gets sick and tired of the play. It's actually when I start to do my best work. When I'm bored, I stop "acting."UGH. She goes on to talk about how she missed her cue for her final entrance as Fantine. So, the answer to "at what point does an actor get completely bored", in Patti's case, would be "a couple of months into the run." And the answer to "what happens when the actor gets completely bored," in Patti's case, is "she zones out backstage and misses her entrance." | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 08:03 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - MikeR 07:57 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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There's also this (page 54):The touring aspect, being on the road for months at a time, was totally new to us and we were in for some big lessons. We lost several bookings our first year because our training at school only prepared us for three performances of the play we'd been rehearsing. That's all we ever did. On the road when we got to the fourth performance of any given show, our performances fell apart. We weren't taught to maintain a characterization or a show. We basically stunk, while we behaved like spoiled brats out of some fancy acting school.So apparently what she says about training is "it doesn't help with preparing for long runs." | |
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| Isn't it rich! | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 01:35 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - MikeR 08:03 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| "We lost several bookings our first year because our training at school only prepared us for three performances of the play we'd been rehearsing. That's all we ever did. On the road when we got to the fourth performance of any given show, our performances fell apart." So, they were trained and prepared to do only three performances of any given play -- and as soon as they got to the fourth show, their performances "fell apart?" What an outrageous statement -- part and parcel of so much else in that book. Aside from everything else that's wrong with the statement, perhaps she should only have spoken for herself. I think it's reasonable to assume that at least some of the other members of the company didn't feel their performances "fell apart" after three shows. | |
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| re: Isn't it rich! | |
| Posted by: | JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 02:03 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | Isn't it rich! - Michael_Portantiere 01:35 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| I don't understand her statement at all. Even when I started in the theatre, in community theatre as a kid, there were often as many as 12 performances of any given show. And we were expected to give the same performance at Show #12 as we did at Show #1. I don't understand the concept of a performance with such a limited shelf life. Had none of these actors ever done anything outside Juilliard? Were they unfamiliar with the idea of a commercial play running on Broadway for several months or years? LuPone strikes me as a very smart lady who sometimes has trouble expressing herself appropriately. This is an instant of when her editor or ghost-writer should have pressed her for a more coherent statement or clarification. | |
| Link | Jere-Rigged |
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| re: Isn't it rich! | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 04:33 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't it rich! - JereNYC 02:03 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| Academic theater usually has short runs so I have heard many graduates of MFA programs make similar statements to LuPone's. They say that it takes a stamina and kind of focus to do a run of a month, or 30 performances or more that just cannot be taught in a program where production runs are short. Even if one is aware of a commercial run lasting months or years, until you actually do it, it is hard to know how to do it. No big mystery. Just common sense. And its a common observation that did not originate with LuPone. | |
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| re: Isn't it rich! | |
| Posted by: | JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 04:53 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't it rich! - whereismikeyfl 04:33 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| Still, I find it hard to believe that none of these actors had ever in their pre-Juilliard days done a run longer than 3 performances. Some fatigue will set in on a long-run, especially a tour, but the way that LuPone depicts it, as the show falling apart completely during performance #4, beggers belief. If she'd said performance #40, I'd be more inclined to go with her on it. | |
| Link | Jere-Rigged |
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| What I think she is saying... | |
| Posted by: | Quicheo 05:45 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't it rich! - JereNYC 04:53 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| ...in her hyperbolic way (and certainly, no one here on All That Chat should be unfamiliar with hyperbole) is that she had learned to give the kind of performance that exhausted her energy after three performances (and, presumably, a week or more of tech). She had not learned to budget physical resources or developed the stamina for a longer run. And while she may be over stating that the show literally fell apart on performance #4, the point is that there is a difference in giving an full-out performance for a one week engagement full of your peers and professors and a much longer professional run. An analogy--I am a physician. In residency, we were trained to see far fewer patients / day than professional physicians see. This allows for learning the skills needed to be competent and the supervision to be safe and thoughtful and creative. In the first month of general practice, many new physicians find themselves exhausted, over-whelmed, even suffer breakdowns because the work load ramps up so quickly. It's not the doctoring skills that are now needing work, it's the stamina and self-care that comes on-the-job. Some, however, in both professions, either have taken the time to develop stamina or had the experience before or are less burdened by the work and do not have these experiences. But, many do. | |
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| re: What I think she is saying... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 05:56 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | What I think she is saying... - Quicheo 05:45 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| A three-performance run is very short, even by high school standards. And aside from that: Even though Juilliard itself presents "academic theater," it obviously trains actors to be pros. So if it were true (and I don't believe it for a moment) that the school didn't train its students to allow them to effectively perform for more than a three-day run, then I highly doubt it would have the excellent reputation it has. | |
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| re: What I think she is saying... | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 06:31 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: What I think she is saying... - Michael_Portantiere 05:56 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| Virtually ALL academic theater is training actors to be pros. And yes, Julliard productions do have a short run. I used to go and productions (including the first NYC production of Part One of Angels in America) only ran one weekend. Maybe they have increased the length of runs since I stopped going, but I doubt they increased them significantly. One hopes the training will help students do long runs, but again, actors usually do not know how to apply their training to long runs until they actually have the experience. That is one of the reasons organizations like The Acting Company that send recent graduates out on tour and programs that link training to a regional theater (like Yale or A.R.T.) have value. | |
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| re: What I think she is saying... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 07:42 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: What I think she is saying... - whereismikeyfl 06:31 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| If any acting school in fact trains its students to give so much on stage in terms of body energy, manner of speech, etc. that their performances "fall apart" (or even deteriorate slightly) after three shows, I would say that's a worthless school. But of course, I don't think Juilliard does anything of the kind. And I don't know of anyone who seriously considers four performances (or even eight, or sixteen) a "long run," so I don't understand your point. | |
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| re: What I think she is saying... | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 09:23 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: What I think she is saying... - Michael_Portantiere 07:42 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| Read what the doctor said again. Maybe the analogy will help you understand. I am sure you will find that any performer will have to do some adjusting if they start performing more frequently than they are used to. The Acting Company toured. They did not just do four performances of each production but rather many over the course of a months long tour. Again, other people who have toured with them have said that playing roles, even in rep, over the months of the tour was a challenge because it was not something they had ever done before. (One even said something similar to LuPone about stops where they gave more performances were harder than the ones where they did one or two performances of each piece in the rep.) | |
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| re: What I think she is saying... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 11:06 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: What I think she is saying... - whereismikeyfl 09:23 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| I think I do understand, but it sounds like whining and a gross exaggeration to me. And I still think LuPone shouldn't have spoken for the entire company when she wrote that their performances fell apart after three shows. If she feels her own performance fell apart, she has every right to say so. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 08:18 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - MikeR 08:03 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| Thank you, Mike. I *knew* she must have some human tendencies after all. ;-) | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 10:24 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - Chromolume 08:18 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| i'm not going to go digging for quotes but somewhere (i'm pretty sure it's in the book) she talks about training and (i think) relying on sense memory and, as someone just said, knowing when to leave in relation to how to keep performances fresh. i don't remember all of what she said well enough to paraphrase it without mangling it and as i said, i'm not going to go look it up. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 12:27 am EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 10:24 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| But I still think that's a very different thing than "never getting bored." I think the point is, training like that can help if you use them once you DO get bored, but that's conceding to the fact that yes, even the Great God Lupone has indeed found herself in need of that help. So yes, certainly actors can use all sorts of tools/tricks to keep their performance honest - but first of all (getting back to your original post), just because you have that training doesn't guarantee you're going to use it -- and second of all, somehow you seem to be twisting Lupone's philosophies around to make it seem like she never gets bored with a role or never has off-days where she might want to be doing something other than the show. I personally can't imagine any performer who hasn't struggled with those impulses. The trick is to find ways to recover from that. I think that's all she was trying to say. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 04:56 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 04:47 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| Is Patti the final word on the subject? Seems to me she, like the rest of us, can only speak to her own experience. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 04:58 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - MikeR 04:56 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| >>is Patti the final word on the subject? yes. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 07:00 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 04:58 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| I think Patti has been telling you little white lies. (Gasp!) ;-) | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 07:06 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - Chromolume 07:00 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| she never lies. she's never wrong. she's never bored. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 07:08 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 07:06 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| she never lies. she's never wrong. she's never bored. Ergo, she's never human. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 07:11 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - Chromolume 07:08 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| oh i think we discovered long ago ms lupone is, indeed, divine. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | singleticket 08:36 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 07:11 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| And apparently quotable by chapter, if not verse. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 07:12 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 07:11 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| I thought "Miss M" was the divine one. ;-) | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 05:02 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 04:58 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| Time (once again) for Alan to tell his story about seeing Evita when Patti had a train to catch... | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:05 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - MikeR 05:02 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| LOL! Seems like others can tell it for me at this point. ;) | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 05:10 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - AlanScott 05:05 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| No. That would be hearsay. and heresy. | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | Zelgo 10:22 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - ryhog 05:10 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| I haven't heard the story yet!! Please tell it!! | |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 06:02 am EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - Zelgo 10:22 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| It's not much of a story. Just that I saw LuPone late in her Broadway run of Evita give a performance that suggested there was a train she wanted to catch at 10:10 and she might be able to if she went fast enough. Getting it over with seemed her main concern that night. This performance was after she had agreed to extend three months beyond the end of her original contract, without Patinkin or Gunton still in the show. It was most disappointing to me as I'd heard great things about her performance and had been very disappointed when I'd first seen it during previews at a matinee only to find when I got to the performance that she was not playing matinees. There had been no sign up announcing that when I bought my ticket, and I had been a fan of hers based on her work with The Acting Company. I still remember her performance in Next Time I'll Sing to You with great fondness. In LuPone's defense, I will say that except for David Cryer as Peron, the show was a shambles. The chorus did not seem to feel like expending much energy, and I did not like the replacement Che at all. (I had seen a terrific understudy, Tom Carder, the first time.) And the sound system was so awful that all around people were complaining about not being able to understand the lyrics. But if the show was a shambles, perhaps it partly stemmed for the leading lady seeming not to care. At the end, the show received the least enthusiastic response I've ever seen a hit musical that was selling out receive from an audience. I'm linking an interview with LuPone in which she talks about her frequent unhappiness while doing the show. I guess this was one of her unhappy nights. | |
| Link | LuPone interview |
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| re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 02:01 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - AlanScott 06:02 am EDT 03/18/14 |
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| your thinking she was late for a train could be the result of her tendency evident as recently as the 54Below shows to rush her lyrics. i actually turned to the spouse and said, "does she have somewhere she needs to be?" didn't stop the show from being terrific, though. | |
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| Speaking of Patti ... | |
| Posted by: | Ann 04:55 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: At what point does a Bway actor get completely bored? - enoch10 04:47 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| ... her second appearance on Girls this week is hilarious. Nothing like a pot-smoking Patti announcing it's time to take her bra off after dinner. | |
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