| re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 01:09 am EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? - ryhog 08:16 pm EDT 03/17/14 |
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| I agree with you. pardon me for any generalizations here - I think any discussion about this subject is going to invite that - but it does seem to me that "in olden days" the focus was on the writers, and their desire to adapt a certain property for the stage, and nowadays projects are more title-driven - it's a bit less important who writes it than that it gets written. Since Sunday In The Park was mentioned in this thread already, that was certainly a project initiated by Sondheim and Lapine after looking at the painting. THEY had the vision to do it, and getting backing from producers was a later step. But did Ahrens and Flaherty come up with the idea that Rocky would make great musical theatre, or were they approached by a producer who thought musicalizing the legendary movie would spell a sure-fire hit? (or, even if A&F did come up with the idea first, the general mentality today does seem to be "what will be an obvious sell" rather than "what would make a complelling musical on its own terms?"). Another change I feel, which may go hand-in-hand with the fact that Broadway musicals/composers are no longer a vital part of the pop music world the way they were before the advent of rock - musicals now seem to be marketed by genre rather than by composer or star. It used to be "what will Rodgers and Hammerstein come up with next?" or "What show is Porter working on now," or "what will Merman's next vehicle be?" - but now the questions tend to be more like "what will be the next rock group to be put into a jukebox show" or "what movie titles will we see on Broadway next season" etc. I tend to think the interest (at least in the way shows are marketed and produced) has gone from "who" to "what." So, in a way, no wonder Rocky might not have spoken to A&F the way their earlier shows did (many of which, to me, seem like they did have a vested interest in the subject on its own terms, familiar to the general public or not) - I tend to think that's not as expected of writers as much anymore. The brand name has become the goal, not the craft of the writers. (Or, the craft is taken for granted, but that "spark of creation" that comes from a true connection to the material is not considered as important.) | |
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| re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:18 am EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? - Chromolume 01:09 am EDT 03/18/14 |
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| I think there are shows that originate from producers, from writers and from an odd assortment of others. I don't think that has changed. I do agree that "branding" (a form of formula) drives things in an unfavorable way and, of course, about the displacement of popular music. I think another way of viewing some of this is by comparing it to the studio model of movie making. A&F were notable for having been hired in that style for Ragtime, and these mega-shows with heavy studio backing really seem to be vestiges of that sort of thing to the extreme. Ironically, film has moved in the opposite direction. | |
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| re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 03:01 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? - ryhog 10:18 am EDT 03/18/14 |
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| I agree with you - "branding" is a good term to use here. (As I said, I knew I was making a statement full of generalizations.) Also, maybe a sense that finding the "right" composer for the show is not perhaps as important as it used to be. A&F have plenty of cred and experience, but somehow I never thought from the beginning that they'd be the right fit for Rocky - though I hoped their professionalism and general expertise would be enough. But it sounds like it wasn't. | |
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| re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 04:12 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? - Chromolume 03:01 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| I think the "team" that was put together for Rocky looks like what a computer would come up with. But are A&F the people you'd think of when you hire AT and SH to direct and choreo? Not likely. | |
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| If I remember correctly ... | |
| Posted by: | jdm 10:12 am EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? - Chromolume 01:09 am EDT 03/18/14 |
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| from a Chatterbox, Meehan introduced A&F to Stallone, who originally was looking toward Hollywood composers to write the score. They actually wrote some songs and "auditioned" in a way, and Stallone said that's his team. Or something like that. Jim | |
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| One thing to remember | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:28 am EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Daily Beast: Is Broadway Brain-Dead? - Chromolume 01:09 am EDT 03/18/14 |
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| Several of the American musicals that are commonly regarded as among the greatest were projects that were not initiated by the writers, but by producers. My Fair Lady, Gypsy, Oklahoma! and a number of others were projects initiated by producers. | |
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| re: One thing to remember | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 08:55 am EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | One thing to remember - AlanScott 05:28 am EDT 03/18/14 |
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| Right - which is why I said that I was making generalizations. But even so, I just somehow tend to think the whole sensibility of those projects was different than many we see nowadays. (I also don't think any of those projects were really driven by the absolute popular name recognition of the subject matter - perhaps Gypsy.) | |
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| re: One thing to remember | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:42 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: One thing to remember - Chromolume 08:55 am EDT 03/18/14 |
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| I think that when it comes to musicals, it really may have been more often than not during the Golden Age that producers bought the rights and then hired writers. But I agree that a major difference is that it was much less about name recognition than thinking something would make a good musical. The Pagnol trilogy was famous when Merrick set about trying to get the rights and putting together a team, but it shows the difference between then and now that Merrick went to a foreign-language trilogy for his first musical. It was believed that just doing a good show would lead to making money, which Merrick wanted to do (although he also really loved theatre). Nowadays a musical must run so long to make a real profit that it's believed a show must be a blockbuster, and that may be one factor pushing the tendency to adapt blockbuster movies much more often nowadays. The irony being, of course, that many of those shows flop. | |
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| re: One thing to remember | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 06:01 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: One thing to remember - AlanScott 05:42 pm EDT 03/18/14 |
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| One way of looking at all of this is that theatre has almost always been a collaborative enterprise in which creatives and producers function together. A show is like a lobster pot-easy to get into, difficult to live it and virtually impossible to get out of. Film, by contrast, is usually a top down affair. Everyone can be fired by the producer (and in the end the product belongs to the producer). That makes the essence of projects very very different. New York is family; Hollywood is business. You won't always get along, but it is not the same. Some of these shows we are talking about are really a blending of these modi operandi. | |
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