| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 11:15 am EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | .it's all well and good...... - portenopete 10:52 am EDT 03/31/14 |
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| Ideally, I think Sally's singing voice should be compelling and full of emotion but not conventionally pretty or polished. She certainly shouldn't sound like a trained singer. I think that's why some people object to Liza's singing in the film; not that the quality of her voice itself is so inappropriate for Sally, but that she sounds so polished and professional. | |
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| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | PlayWiz 11:19 am EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: .it's all well and good...... - Michael_Portantiere 11:15 am EDT 03/31/14 |
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| I always thought that Liza's Sally in the film was a fine singer who just lacked the confidence and support in her life to audition for the better clubs and/or to sleep with a better class of guy to help her career. | |
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| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | bobby2 08:24 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: .it's all well and good...... - PlayWiz 11:19 am EDT 03/31/14 |
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| I think the original poster's point is that why is Sally a bad singer when Kost, Schneider, Schultz, Ernst, etc. often are. If you are going to apply that reality to musicals why is Nellie Forbush a good singer? (she's a nurse) Why is Evita a good singer? Why is..... and in the movie Liza is supposed to be a good singer. Right after she leaves the stage Brian says something like you are really quite wonderful and she says I know darling! She is only like 19 and in Germany during a recession so career opportunities are not exactly plentiful. I always feel the movie is such a different story. She aborts the baby for other reasons too but also because "she has this foolish dream she might even make something out of herself as an actress." (quote is not exact) | |
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| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 09:48 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: .it's all well and good...... - bobby2 08:24 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| >> and in the movie Liza is supposed to be a good singer. Right after she leaves the stage Brian says something like you are really quite wonderful and she says I know darling! She is only like 19 and in Germany during a recession so career opportunities are not exactly plentiful. he does compliment her on her singing but, especially at that point, he's an unreliable judge of her character (and by extension her singing skills?). it is a story about his slowly (and painfully) becoming aware of the kind of person she actuality is. he could at this point be as wrong about her talent as he is about everything else about her. the fact is she's in a 3rd rate night club. we don't know what the outcome of her audition at the end will be but i don't think there is anything to indicate we should assume there will be a happy ending for anybody in germany at that time. i think what throws people is minnelli does sing so well. we can see her being in a better club than the kit kat and we can see her singing herself into a better tomorrow. the problem is i don't think any of those characters are going to have a better tomorrow. i don't think she was miscast for the film. i don't think fosse should have had her sing less well. i just think her singing voice (so wonderful then) can throw things at an odd angle. | |
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| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | bobby2 02:10 am EDT 04/01/14 |
| In reply to: | re: .it's all well and good...... - enoch10 09:48 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| "he does compliment her on her singing but, especially at that point, he's an unreliable judge of her character (and by extension her singing skills?)." the odd thing is that to me in the movie Sally doesn't have poor character. She's a pretty smart cookie who realizes how deluded Brian is about himself and gets out before she is stuck. I always feel Liza's Sally leaves Germany pretty soon after the final scene and set off for New York, New York (pun intended.) whereas in the stage version I feel she goes like Elsie. | |
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| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 12:46 am EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: .it's all well and good...... - bobby2 02:10 am EDT 04/01/14 |
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| >> the odd thing is that to me in the movie Sally doesn't have poor character. well, except for the lying and the manipulating and the cheating (if i didn't detest slut shaming i'd add prostitution) yes. | |
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| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 09:00 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: .it's all well and good...... - bobby2 08:24 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| Eva Peron doesn't have any diegetic numbers. If we suddenly saw her singing in a night club, maybe we could question it. As for Nellie, is it so hard to believe that there are nurses who can sing, and who might enjoy doing a little theatrical entertainment on the side? | |
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| re: .it's all well and good...... | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 08:43 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: .it's all well and good...... - bobby2 08:24 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| If you are going to apply that reality to musicals why is Nellie Forbush a good singer? (she's a nurse)... ...who sings (literally, that is, as a character) in 2 songs - "Honey Bun" and the finale of "Dites-Moi." (Maybe 3 - since Emile later does a short rendition of "Wash That Man" it seems to reason that Nellie is actually singing that song as a character?) I suspect that Nellie (as opposed to the actress playing Nellie, who does need to sell the other major songs) might not be the greatest singer in the world, lol, though clearly she's confident enough to put over "Honey Bun" for the Thanksgiving show. It would actually be interesting to hear someone do the role where the actress could sing as well as we'd expect, but who would sound less polished in "Honey Bun" so that we could distinguish the diegetic performance from the "expression of high emotion" that is the language for erupting into song in the other numbers. | |
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