| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | sf 04:49 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - Michael_Portantiere 11:11 am EDT 03/31/14 |
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| Actually, I've said as much elsewhere, more than once, in posts with my full name attached to them. And it's not, I'm afraid, simply a snide comment, it's a conclusion drawn from having watched a few of her live performances, including a horror of an evening at 'The Goodbye Girl' which is still, more than twenty years later, the single laziest, sloppiest, most unprofessional performance I've seen in a so-called professional production - she wandered around the stage as if she was on tranquilisers, ducked a couple of big notes, paid apparently no attention at all to things like phrasing and breath control, mumbled her dialogue, and didn't even try to maintain eye contact with any of her colleagues. When a few hundred people have paid good money to watch you perform, the *least* you can do is look as though you want to be there. That night, she couldn't be bothered, and that's just not good enough. And then there's the 'Song and Dance' recording, on which - once again - phrasing and breath control appear to be alien concepts to her, the 'Anyone Can Whistle' concert album, on which she's just plain *bad*, and... well, you get the picture. Now, granted, a lot of people like her a lot more than I do, but I assure you the comment wasn't simple bitchiness. She earned it, fair and square. As far as I'm concerned, the Empress isn't wearing any clothes. | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 05:35 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - sf 04:49 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| i understand the concept of i don't care much for this but others do. happens to me all the time. i have no idea what people see in WICKED or LES MIZ or any number of other things. but if you insist on drawing on the emperor has no clothes fairy tale then you're saying you have the ability to determine the authentic where everyone else (or at least her fans, which is a pretty large number of people, one of whom is stephen sondheim) can not. can you tell me what it is you have that everyone who likes her lacks? | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | sf 05:43 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - enoch10 05:35 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| Did you miss the part immediately before that where I wrote "as far as I'm concerned"? | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 05:53 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - sf 05:43 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| no i saw that. it was the emperors new clothes part i was asking about. the fairy tale is clear in its meaning - others were fooled, i was not. that's the point of the tale you're referencing. | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | sf 05:57 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - enoch10 05:53 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| Oh, I understand your point, but I thought I'd made myself clear. I tend to assume, when I post online, that people reading will be intelligent enough to understand that anything I post is *just my opinion*. Perhaps I shouldn't. | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 09:32 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - sf 05:57 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| i don't think there's any doubt that it's just your opinion. its just you referenced a specific fairy tale with a specific meaning. | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | PlayWiz 05:17 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - sf 04:49 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| I actually saw Peters in "The Goodbye Girl" and agree that she was not shown to good advantage. I think there were problems with the show and some of the keys some of her songs were in, as there were lots of new songs being put in and taken out, if I recall correctly. Even worse, though, was her part, which is a real stick-in-the-mud. Any time that Martin Short's character wants to do something fun, she puts up an argument and wants to put the kibosh on it. It was a pretty dreadful show with a not very good score. Short's performance was the only thing really enjoyable in it. I knew there was something wrong with a show in which I didn't want to hear Bernadette Peters sing another song; her songs all sounded the same and they just lay there. I don't recall her being unprofessional; I think that her part just wasn't musicalized well. I'm not discounting your experience though -- it's possible she had a really off night. Marsha Mason in the film plays the character as a very difficult lady as well, but somehow she became more palatable in the screenplay. Otherwise, I've seen Peters give superb performances in "Sunday in the Park with George", "Into the Woods", "Gypsy" (yes, she was excellent by the time I saw her, as well as on the Tony broadcast), "Song and Dance" and "A Little Night Music". Her Sally in "Follies" was controversial, and some keys for the songs showed off a break between head and chest voice which she was having some difficult negotiating the night I went; plus her characterization of playing her as extremely needy and unhinged from the get-go must have passed muster with the director (or possibly started with him). She has always been professional when I've seen her, and for the most part, on stage, screen and television, and recordings like "Mack and Mabel", usually wonderful. | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | sf 05:29 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - PlayWiz 05:17 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| It is certainly possible she was just having a really off night at the performance I saw - but part of being a professional in *any* line of work is showing up and doing the job *as well as you possibly can* even when you don't feel like it. I imagine, from what I've read about it, that 'The Goodbye Girl' may well not have been a very pleasant experience for her - yes, a thankless, badly-written role that wasn't a very good fit for her, plus a bookwriter and lyricist who didn't get on, a change of directors, and a co-star who got all the good reviews. Unfortunately, once the thing's up and running and playing to the public, the fact that it's not an enjoyable experience is not a licence to show up and give less than 100%. She was, I admit, far better in 'Gypsy' (which I saw *despite* her, because I wanted to see a Broadway-level production of *the show*) - but she was badly miscast, and her singing was, once again, far from unimpeachable, in terms of phrasing and breath control and all the rest of it. As I said, I do understand that some people love her - but I've also seen her do some really bad work, and some mediocre work, and heard her give some pretty dreadful performances on record as well as live. | |
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| re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 08:32 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
| In reply to: | re: So if Sally Bowles isn't supposed to be a good singer.... - sf 05:29 pm EDT 03/31/14 |
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| ...and a co-star who got all the good reviews... And speaking of the quality of singing voices, in my opinion, Short was out of his league entirely. I didn't see the show live, but hearing the CD (and the terrible Tony performance of that terrible "Paula" song), I have to say that Peters emerges the winner in the voice department. One can trash Peters if they wish, but I find Short unlistenable. | |
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