| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 12:40 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - perfectlyfrank 12:17 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| I think Lucy could at that point (late 1960s) sing well enough to get through Hello, Dolly reasonably well. It's not a vocally challenging score (unlike Mame) and the character of Dolly, scheming and rather common, would have been well within her range. The various widowed "Lucy" characters she played in her 1960s TV series were basically variations on Dolly anyway. The question, though, would be whether at the point in time the film was made Ball would have been considered a bankable enough star to carry an extremely expensive production. She had a very nice success with Yours, Mine and Ours in 1968, but the budget for that picture was barely 10% what Dolly cost. It's really kind of hard to imagine which female star circa 1968-1969 would have been both age-suitable for the Dolly and a big enough box office name: Shirley MacLaine? Elizabeth Taylor? Debbie Reynolds? | |
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| Lucy auditioned for the role | |
| Posted by: | StageStruckLad 03:21 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - LegitOnce 12:40 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| Well, sort of. Does anyone remember the episode of her TV show from that era where she dressed up as Dolly and tried to fool someone (was it a guard at an army base?) that she was playing Dolly in some production? Or was she maybe imitating Carol Channing? The details are a bit hazy, but I distinctly remember her parading around in Dolly's Harmonia Gardens outfit. | |
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| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! | |
| Posted by: | Greg_M 01:49 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - LegitOnce 12:40 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| Shirley MacLaine? Elizabeth Taylor? Debbie Reynolds? Taylor couldn't sing or dace and was too young. Debbie Reynolds was also all wrong as was Shirley MacLaine (at 34 when the movie was filmed too young) Ball was the best choice and was apparently box-office (Which is why Warner Bros wanted her and her money for "Mame" Julie Andrews was also all wrong (though they considered her) Judy Holiday would have been a great choice if she were still alive - or even Judy Garland if she was able to do it (she was not) Then there was Ginger Rogers and Doris Day | |
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| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 02:04 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - Greg_M 01:49 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| With all due respect to Ginger Rogers, she couldn't sell a movie ticket in 1968. Doris Day would be an intriguing "maybe" but I don't know that she would have been willing to play Dolly's conniving. (Also, by 1968, her career as a movie star was on the wane: With Six You Get Eggroll and Where Were You When the Lights Went Out? didn't exactly set the box office on fire.) The point here is that there were very few bankable American women stars around in the late 1960s besides Streisand and a couple of others of her generation. A 35+ something star who could open a big road show movie? Even Taylor was struggling by then. | |
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| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! | |
| Posted by: | Greg_M 07:03 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - LegitOnce 02:04 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| Going with a younger star was in keeping with the current trend...most over 40's were home watching tv and hardly went to films anymore, the big audience were younger people which is why Fox decided on Streisand (After realizing Channing wouldn't work very well on screen - as her film career has proven) The whole production has aged down right to Irene and Cornelius (now in the 20's). Filming began in Spring of 1968 long before "Funny Girl" opened. Streisand was cast in early 1967 - before "Funny Girl" began shooting. | |
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| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! (long) | |
| Posted by: | bicoastal 06:47 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - LegitOnce 02:04 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| Not sure about Streisand being cast before FUNNY GIRL's release, but having been a movie-crazy thirteen year old when DOLLY came out, I remember Streisand's casting was a huge controversy at the time. Everyone thought she was too young and that Channing (who had earned an Oscar nomination just two years earlier) should have gotten the part. But Streisand was huge news at the time and without a doubt one of the few--if only, by then--women who were bankable. Julie Andrews had been scarred by STAR!, Doris Day had been blamed for the failure of JUMBO (and indeed her film career was on the wane due to bad choices), Shirley MacLaine was working on SWEET CHARITY (age-appropriate for her but a big flop on release), Elizabeth Taylor was not a musical star, Ginger Rogers wasn't even on a movie-goers' radar, Natalie Wood was still a star but obviously not right (and barely older than Streisand), Shirley Jones was too young and pursuing serious roles, Debbie Reynolds (who might have been good) was losing her audience. Singing aside, Lucy might have pulled it off based on how big a success YOURS, MINE AND OURS was, but at a time when tons of young stars were coming up, it makes sense that the studio went with Streisand. Also remember that 20th Century Fox paid a record sum for the rights to Dolly! and had both succeeded and failed with big-budget musicals in the recent past. While they correctly identified Streisand as a potential box-office champ (and cast Walter Matthau, who was a huge star at the time), IMHO virtually every other decision they made was wrong. There couldn't have been less charm or chemistry between Marianne McAndrew (whose feature career was very short-lived) and Michael Crawford (who I still find hard to watch) and the whole move felt labored and wheezing, even to a 13-year-old. The movie performed well at the time of its release but not well enough to make its money back, so it was considered a flop (and the critical reaction did not help its reputation). | |
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| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! (long) | |
| Posted by: | pierce 05:43 am EDT 04/03/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! (long) - bicoastal 06:47 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| Julie Andrews hadn't been scarred by Star! when Hello, Dolly! was being cast; when Streisand was announced for the lead role, Andrews was still riding high with the success of Thoroughly Modern Millie (she was named the top box office star for 1967). The doomed Gertrude Lawrence biography wasn't even released in the States until after Dolly! had completed filming. And while Billy Rose's Jumbo was indeed a box office disappointment when released in 1962, Doris Day was still named the top box office star of the year thanks to the smash hit That Touch Of Mink (she was also the top box office star for 1963 and 1964 as well). But there's no question her box office pull had dwindled by the time Dolly! was being cast. With Six You Get Eggroll was actually profitable and one of her top ten box office hits, but it wasn't released until after Streisand was signed to play Dolly. Dolly! producer Ernest Lehman initially thought Carol Channing should be cast in the title role, but he changed his mind after seeing Thoroughly Modern Millie. The name most often associated with the project (when it was in development) was Elizabeth Taylor. You're right that there was a backlash when Streisand's casting was announced, but it subsided after Funny Girl was released; after that, people wanted to see what she could do with the part. Dolly! was the fifth highest-grossing film of the year, but (as you stated) that wasn't enough to cover its cost. And the critical reception wasn't as uniformly negative as some have stated; reviews were mixed in New York (the Daily News gave it 4 stars and Pauline Kael recommended the film in the New Yorker) and uniformly positive in Los Angeles. Notices across the country were mixed to positive, and most critics tended to be kinder than they were in New York. | |
| Link | Box Office Champions 1932-2011 |
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| Streisand being cast as Dolly was announced in May 1967 | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 07:04 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! (long) - bicoastal 06:47 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| And I think that filming of Hello, Dolly! may have been completed before Funny Girl was released, although I'm not positive (and don't feel like searching for the answer to be sure). | |
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| re: Streisand being cast as Dolly was announced in May 1967 | |
| Posted by: | bicoastal 07:38 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | Streisand being cast as Dolly was announced in May 1967 - AlanScott 07:04 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| Here's a ton of production details from the Barbra Streisand Archives site. Filming on DOLLY! started in April, 1968, was completed in July. FUNNY GIRL opened in September, 1968, looks to have finished shooting about the end of 1967. | |
| Link | http://barbra-archives.com/films/hello_dolly_streisand.html |
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| Thanks for the link (nm) | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 02:47 am EDT 04/03/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Streisand being cast as Dolly was announced in May 1967 - bicoastal 07:38 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| nm | |
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| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! | |
| Posted by: | ashleylm 05:53 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - LegitOnce 02:04 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| he point here is that there were very few bankable American women stars around in the late 1960s besides Streisand and a couple of others I think Streisand was cast before Funny Girl (the movie) opened, so she was hardly bankable, she was just talented and celebrated. | |
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| re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! | |
| Posted by: | Zelgo 12:44 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Barbra vs Carol in HELLO, DOLLY! - LegitOnce 12:40 pm EDT 04/02/14 |
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| cue Marni Nixon | |
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