| Side Show final song… | |
| Posted by: | Solberg 06:04 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| I saw the original Broadway production of this--and am thrilled there's a revival coming to Broadway. But I do have to know other people's opinions of the final song: I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU. It has always stricken me as one of the dumbest songs I have ever heard. I mean--they are Siamese Twins and all--how could they leave each other? It's not like surgery to separate them was an option. Now, I love the rest of the show…I really do. WHO WILL LOVE ME AS I AM is one of the best act one curtain numbers out there...But the final song strikes me as just laughable. | |
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| Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 01:17 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | Side Show final song… - Solberg 06:04 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| That's probably half of the marriages in the u.s.! I never had a problem with the song because if lfelt that it wasn't meant to be literal separation. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | TheatreAddict 02:34 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - dramedy 01:17 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I think this thread is so interesting that people got so wrapped up in that lyric. I just always assumed and took it that they were comforting each other at the end saying that although there isn't much in the world you can count on, you can always count on me being there for you... we have been joined together from birth and I'm there for you always, like it or not. So I don't think it's meant to be funny or ironic...just them stating the reality of their situation for better or for worse. Sort of sweet, right? T.A. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | writerkev 03:08 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - TheatreAddict 02:34 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I find it interesting, too. In fact, I'm amazed that so many theatre lovers here are so literal-minded. Of course the line is meant as irony, and it has deeper meanings than the literal. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | AnyaS 04:25 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - writerkev 03:08 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| Me too. When I read about some people snickering in the theater during that song, it makes me wonder what other inappropriate things they guffaw at. Yeah, I used the word guffaw. It really fits in this case. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | chrisampm 04:47 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - AnyaS 04:25 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| And why does guffaw really fit in this case? It's not the same as snickering. So what inappropriate things would a snickerer guffaw at? | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | AnyaS 07:50 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - chrisampm 04:47 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| Here's the example I was thinking of when I wrote that initial post but was too lazy to pack meat on the sentence because I was posting from a cell phone. My friend used to hate going to see plays or movies with her ex. At a dinner gathering once, she claimed several people frowned at him during a performance of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? when he laughed inappropriately. He argued that he snickered but didn't laugh. When she said, "Fair enough but you laughed loudly during Saving Private Ryan." He answered sheepishly, "Yeah but it was nervous laughter." They have since divorced. Whenever she has a date with a new guy, I jokingly ask her if he guffaws or merely smiles or twitters or snickers. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | sf 04:04 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - writerkev 03:08 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| What's deep about the lyrics of "I Will Never Leave You"? They're Hallmark-card doggerel. That's why they're so funny - they are thuddingly banal and obvious. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | sf 02:34 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - dramedy 01:17 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| There are plenty of ways of expressing that thought *without* using a phrase that's potentially hysterically funny when applied to a pair of Siamese twins. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | JohnPopa 03:20 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - sf 02:34 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I also think since the song is so earnest that it makes the potential campiness of the lyric stick out more. The characters are oblivious to the double meaning which should be obvious to them too. I think it makes it a bit sillier. I don't think the people here poking fun at the lyric really think it's meant literally. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | ashleylm 03:49 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - JohnPopa 03:20 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| The characters are oblivious to the double meaning which should be obvious to them too. I think it makes it a bit sillier. I don't think the people here poking fun at the lyric really think it's meant literally Indeed. Speaking as someone who couldn't get past that lyric in the original production (which, at the time, I only knew through the OCR), it's not that I think it's meant literally (one sister explaining to the other what is crashingly obvious), it's that it could be taken literally, since it's also completely true, and it's gut-bustingly funny the moment your mind goes there. Which, for many of us, is almost instantly. Even worse, not only is the literal meaning true, the literal meaning is the central problem of the show! That uncomfortable juxtaposition is what bothers me most--I enjoy a good double entendre, but not when the meanings are at odds with each other. So it's good that I will never leave you, but it's extraordinarily unfortunate that I will never leave you. How wonderful that I will remain by your side, but how dreadful that I will remain by your side. Over, and over again throughout the entire song ... cognitive dissonance! Compare to Wicked, where the multiple meanings of "for good" are consistently appropriate. The same sentiment could have been conveyed with something like: "I will always love you, every hour of every day, we were meant to share each moment, beside you I'll be glad to stay" or some such thing. Not immortal words, but it avoids the hilarity. | |
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| re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there | |
| Posted by: | writerkev 03:30 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Isn't there emotionally leaving someone that is still physically there - JohnPopa 03:20 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
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| Sure sounds like some people are taking it literally... The original poster says "I mean--they are Siamese Twins and all--how could they leave each other? It's not like surgery to separate them was an option." | |
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| re: Side Show final song… | |
| Posted by: | MTMan 01:45 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | Side Show final song… - Solberg 06:04 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| Thank goodness I'm not alone. I remember it as the most unintentionally funny moment I've ever seen in the theater. The friend I went with was sobbing, and I was stifling my laughter--as was the stranger next to me. His boyfriend on the other side of him was sobbing, too. I kind of thought at the time I'd found my soul mate... Nothing was quite as squirm-inducing as the Tunnel of Love sequence, but that damn song was well-sung, bombastically orchestrated, and embarrassingly laughable. I sincerely hope they've discovered a way to make the song work. | |
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| Tunnel of love is cut | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 12:57 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Side Show final song… - MTMan 01:45 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I think modified lyrics and melody might be in the show, but it definitely not the big amusement park number in original show. | |
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| re: Side Show final song… | |
| Posted by: | PlazaBoy 10:51 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Side Show final song… - MTMan 01:45 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I'm with you on the Tunnel of Love sequence. It was so over the top. My friend and I just looked at each other with a WTF expression that made us both want to burst out laughing. | |
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| re: Side Show final song… | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 11:03 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Side Show final song… - PlazaBoy 10:51 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I remember posting about this once before also. Though I do think the music is fun, the lyrics had a sexual "schoolkid" naivete to them that, whatever the intention, did seem silly rather than depicting any sort of real awakening/adventure/danger. Yes, the girls are young and inexperienced, but they're not kids - and certainly neither are the men, though neither of them, IMO< is as mature as they see themselves. But however we see the characters, the lyrics just weren't right for the moment. (I think I also remember saying I felt the same about some of the stuff in Act II of Romance/Romance, which made these characters in their 30's seem more like high school kids at a party when mom and dad are away, lol.) | |
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| re: Side Show final song… | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 12:24 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | Side Show final song… - Solberg 06:04 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| "It has always stricken me as one of the dumbest songs I have ever heard. I mean--they are Siamese Twins and all--how could they leave each other?" I can't.... | |
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| re: Side Show final song… | |
| Posted by: | chrisampm 01:39 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Side Show final song… - Michael_Portantiere 12:24 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I can... In the context of that production, with so many vaudeville-style numbers riffing on their condition like We Share Everything, Leave Me Alone, 1+1=3, and When I'm By Your Side, we're primed to laugh at these puns. So I found the number, at least at the start, to be ironical. Then I thought it was stupid. And then I was moved. Condon's done much to solve all that. | |
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| re: Side Show final song… | |
| Posted by: | broadwaybacker 06:11 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | Side Show final song… - Solberg 06:04 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| "It's not like surgery to separate them was an option." You definitely need to see the "new" Side Show. That's all I'll say, other than I felt that "I Will Never Leave You" was perfect as presented. Just FYI, I did not see the original. | |
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| But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | Ann 06:08 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | Side Show final song… - Solberg 06:04 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| ... in the new production. And I think it works very well now, somewhat because of the introduction of the idea that a surgeon may be able to separate the twins, and this would clear the way for Terry, but Daisy doesn't want to do it. Thus, she has decided she will never leave her. That, in addition to the fact that other people do leave them, and they know they (emotionally in addition to the obvious) won't. I was with you completely before, but it really worked for me in the DC production. That said - Who Will Love Me As I Am is the best song in the score. | |
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| re: But surgery.. ... (spoiler, I suppose) contrary view | |
| Posted by: | NewtonUK 09:14 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - Ann 06:08 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| Yes - surgery is now an option. When Buddy calls off his marriage because (gasp!) he's gay and cannot live a lie, the other guy suddenly has to be bridegroom. Oy. Such a megillah! Well - marrying a Siamese twin presents obvious wedding night concerns - So he out of nowhere says - 'I met a Doctor who told me they could be separated safely!' Pardon me WTF? When? You never mentioned this? And not likely true anyway. IMHO, this rewrite takes a show that worked beautifully the first time around (the NY Times wrote a love letter to the original production) with the unspoken but omnipresent issue of how these girls could marry always on the table - and turned it into a mediocre show. These last minute revelations, for me, are about as risible as the 15 minutes we waste with the back story of the twins and Houdini (yeah, Houdini - I cant make this stuff up). I always wish Side Show well - I just think this 'new' version is a Side Show which has been tinkered to death. | |
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| re: But surgery.. ... (spoiler, I suppose) contrary view | |
| Posted by: | joly1 09:16 pm EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery.. ... (spoiler, I suppose) contrary view - NewtonUK 09:14 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| You should read the biography about the twins: The Lives and Loves of Daisy and Violet Hilton. Not only is it a great read, a lot of the back story (including Houdini) is in there. | |
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| re: But surgery.. ... (spoiler, I suppose) contrary view | |
| Posted by: | bwaydiva1 11:54 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery.. ... (spoiler, I suppose) contrary view - NewtonUK 09:14 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| I worry about your last sentence/concern there. That is my concern as well. (Also, in reality the twins could have been safely separated I think. According to an article, they shared no major organs. However, they were shuttled off to showbiz. I think psychologically by the time they were adults they were connected to a degree where it might have been damaging.) | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | sf 07:25 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - Ann 06:08 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| That might actually make the song work for me. The first time around, I thought it was the single stupidest lyric I'd ever heard in a theatre. | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | NeoAdamite 11:13 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - sf 07:25 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| The first time around, I thought it was the single stupidest lyric I'd ever heard in a theatre. Although you're hardly alone, I thought it was meant metaphorically, as a statement of resignation (probably nobody is going to love us as we are) but also commitment to emotional support. The latter may seem obvious, but there are many cases where people shackled together by fate hate each other for it. I'm unfamiliar with the changes made for this production, but I'm willing to give it a chance. | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | sf 10:24 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - NeoAdamite 11:13 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| I know what a metaphor is, thank you very much. It's still a laughably stupid line - or at least, it was in the original version of the show. | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | AnyaS 02:12 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - NeoAdamite 11:13 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| That's how I always viewed too. There are many lyrics to criticize in the show but I never understood the uproar over this one. Did people honestly take it literally? Really? Really??? | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | JohnPopa 08:19 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - AnyaS 02:12 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| Oh, I got that it wasn't meant literally, I still thought it was a hammy and laughable way to express things. (Haven't seen the new version, hope it works better.) | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | Vint 09:30 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - sf 07:25 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| The first time around, I thought it was the single stupidest lyric I'd ever heard in a theatre. At that point, had you heard the "November Song" from Sugar? | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | sf 10:22 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - Vint 09:30 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| *At the time*, no I hadn't - but of course it doesn't involve people who are joined at the hip singing about how they'll never leave each other. | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | Vint 01:37 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - sf 10:22 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| No, but it can be forgiven as authorial irony. A lyric that reads like a bad first draft, however, can't be. :) | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | carolinaguy 10:24 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - Vint 01:37 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| Thank God other people think this too. Even beyond the idea that two women with their asses grown together can't really leave each other, some of the other lyrics in the song are banal or just plain bad, especially in the chorus: I will never leave you (Duh; our asses are grown together) I will never go away (Redundant) We were meant to be together (Because our asses are grown together) Beside you is where I will stay (Duh; and a contorted phrasing to get the easy away/stay rhyme) | |
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| Third line is... | |
| Posted by: | bwaynut 10:50 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - carolinaguy 10:24 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| "We were meant to share each moment".... I realize it still does nothing to change your analysis. | |
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| re: Third line is... | |
| Posted by: | carolinaguy 10:58 am EDT 08/07/14 |
| In reply to: | Third line is... - bwaynut 10:50 am EDT 08/07/14 |
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| Ah, thank you. I don't know where I got 'be together' from... | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | Solberg 06:09 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - Ann 06:08 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| Ann--that makes me very happy. Thanks. | |
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| re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) | |
| Posted by: | John_Patti 07:12 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
| In reply to: | re: But surgery is an option ... (spoiler, I suppose) - Solberg 06:09 pm EDT 08/06/14 |
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| I felt the same way about 60% of the score back then - this new revival creates the perfect context for the songs and those which were squirm inducing work amazingly well now. Beyond amazing - stunningly well. | |
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