| Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 07:34 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| Sometimes I just listen to something over and over, and marvel at it... revisiting it sometimes 5 times in one sitting, just to revel in how genius I think it is. I caught myself doing that again today with Caroline Or Change... and sometimes I can hardly stand both how brilliant I think it is, and not just as a whole but so so many of the little parts that aren't even full songs that most people who saw it wouldn't even remember (I sure didn't after I saw it once)... and also, how under appreciated it is. I listen or watch and think "does anybody see what I see?!" (like John Adams does) I know lots of people saw what I saw and hear what I hear, certainly the people at the Public theater and the investors of the bway production... but for how brilliant I think it is, the ratio is very off for it's appreciation. The same goes for The Wild Party (LaChiusa), and Bernarda Alba, and Once On This Island even, and even Sunday in the Park with George, despite even having won the Pulitzer and had an acclaimed revival, still feels under appreciated for how f*cking genius it is, in my opinion. I'm sure others have these same feelings about certain shows. But just felt like saying it. | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 11:55 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
| In reply to: | Does anybody see what I see? - Chazwaza 07:34 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| I get your point with all of these except SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE. I don't understand how that show could possibly be viewed as under-appreciated on any level. | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | BrianJ 11:12 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
| In reply to: | Does anybody see what I see? - Chazwaza 07:34 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| I was very moved by CAROLINE, and I still treasure many parts of it, but I would also say that I find it problematic and i don't feel that it inherently works on the level of a GUYS AND DOLLS or a MY FAIR LADY (for example), both of which I've seen performed by very amateur/unskilled actors and yet had such an inherent build/drive to them that they landed no matter what. I don't think CAROLINE has that perfection of punch to it, but I wouldn't say that I know the answer of why - no New Haven tryout, with those notoriously incisive New Haven audiences as opposed to the Public Theater subscribers? Just kidding, the demographics of today's New Haven theatregoers can barely fill the Yale Rep, let alone the Shubert, so the answers of how to perfect a musical so that it bewitches/enchants mass audiences for centuries are no longer to be found there, NOR in the East Village, I would say. | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 08:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Does anybody see what I see? - BrianJ 11:12 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| Well, two things: 1) How often have you seen amateur productions of Caroline or Change? Or even professional? I'd say of the very small number of people who have seen it, they've either seen it just in NYC or just in an amateur production. It hasn't been around for 60 years or become a classic or been a movie or been done in school, community, regional, etc productions for as long as it's existed. So it's hard to imagine comparing it in those ways, or imagining that you can really know that it doesn't work and those do based on what you said proved G&D or MFL for example DO work. I argue this because I think it does work. It worked when I saw it, and then a decade later when I picked up the CD finally, it worked all over again. And then I read the script to make sure (I believe the entire how is on the CD though). 2) I also argue this because it is not in anyway comparable to shows like MFL or G&D, or any of the shows that were being written in the 40s, 50s, or 60s. It's hardly comparable to any show written any time anyway. But I mean, I think Assassins works brilliantly, that didn't go out of town to New Haven either. But I'd also never think to compare it as a musical to MFL or G&D. Caroline Or Change to me is a piece of dramatic and poetic art that entertains. It's like an modern American opera-poem. The others you put it up against are entertainments that were so good they are art. Whether my point is true or well made, I urge you to buy or rent to CoC CD and listen to it a few more times. | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | EvFoDr 09:26 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
| In reply to: | Does anybody see what I see? - Chazwaza 07:34 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| Count me in! I've been in that place with Spider Woman lately. I saw the original in 1994, and a tour a few years later, and a production at NYU a few years ago. Lately I became completely obsessed all over again, as if I had never seen or heard it before. I went to see the original production at TOFTS recently, and at some points almost couldn't breathe I was so taken away. That prompted me to re-watch the film and I was struck at how great it is when people actually ADAPT material rather than just rehash a movie or book. And it's so packed full of amazing songs, it's almost embarrassing. I think from Anything For Him through to the end is just so mind blowing. That fantastic trio which is, for me, the emotional center of the whole piece, to the eerie surreal title song, to the Lucky Molina/Over The Wall sequence (sadly not included on the OBCR, but happily present on the Vanessa Williams recording), to the finale where Molina's tragedy gets to be a triumph in his imagination. Her Name is Aurora becoming His Name Was Molina... That's maybe my favorite 20 minutes of any show. :-) | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 08:50 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Does anybody see what I see? - EvFoDr 09:26 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| oh yes, me too. Spider Woman is absolutely sensational. I've seen the original, I've seen other productions, I've listen to it many times and it's like biting into a delicious steak each time. I've never understand how forgotten it seems to be in modern musical theater history. A juggernaut of a show, that not only is just sensational as is but also managed to win a slew of Tonys (Best Musical, Best Score, Best Book, Best Director, Best Actress, Best Actor, Featured Actor, Costumes) it also ran for a very strong run and garnered TWO recordings. It's one of the last BIG broadway shows with incredible sets, costumes, lighting and just an insane amount of incredible dancing that was also a brilliant, intelligent show with an adult subject matter. It seems more and more these days no one can write musicals like that... either they are dark and have no dancing, or there is dancing because it's happy, or it's a juxbox show, or taking place in the 60s, or is some kind of stylized comment, or because it's a musical... but nothing underneath. It's long overdue for a revival. Perhaps in 4 years someone with do a 25th Anniversary revival (and hopefully John Kander will still be with us to see it). | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | tandelor 09:20 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
| In reply to: | Does anybody see what I see? - Chazwaza 07:34 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| I feel the same about Caroline, or Change, Parade, Next to Normal, Batboy, Candide, and Elegies, among others. I've listened to them hundreds of times, and they always amaze and startle me with their freshness and brilliance. | |
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| Candide! | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 08:42 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Does anybody see what I see? - tandelor 09:20 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| Oh man.. I should have mentioned that. That is easily one of the most played CDs I've ever had... I had to buy it again just cause I wore it out. I'm talking about the OBC of course. As much as I love all the other additional songs, I don't love any of the recordings of the new versions, except that big televised concert the Lenny conducted... that may be the best version of the show in terms of collected songs and order etc. It's hard to say it's under appreciated considering how many times it's been recorded or televised. But it is nonetheless still very much under appreciated because so few people, relatively speaking, have even heard of it. West Side Story no one would accuse of being over appreciated, and though Candide has been lucky to be recorded and revival so many times, it is one of the great achievements of the musical theater and it is never considered on that level by the greater public who do not even know it exists. I know the book has presented many people with issues, but I think the show has worked with all the books written for it, even though some are better than others. | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | showtunetrivia 09:07 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
| In reply to: | Does anybody see what I see? - Chazwaza 07:34 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| Yes, Mr. Chazwaza, I do. I'm sorry if I startled you. I couldn't sleep, because I was playing SWEENEY TODD and FOLLIES and GREY GARDENS and 1776 over and over and over... :) I'll do that with works that are not exactly the height of genius, too. I'll just get grooved into something and, like you, find more things I like about a score with repeated playing. My family calls it obsession. Laura | |
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| re: Does anybody see what I see? | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 08:38 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Does anybody see what I see? - showtunetrivia 09:07 pm EDT 08/13/14 |
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| :) Yes, those are on the list as well... but Sweeney Todd is one of the most acclaimed and appreciated musicals ever written, certainly as much as can be expected of something that dark focusing on murdering and eating people for revenge. Follies, though there isn't enough appreciation in the modern world for how genius I think this show is, it is nonetheless one of the most passionately loved and obsessed over shows ever written, and has enjoyed 6 major productions in NYC (OBC, Concert, RTC revival, recent revival, Encores, and I'm even counting Papermill despite not being NYC) and many recordings, and a book about it, etc, etc. It has never been appreciated by enough people for my tastes, but I think it's been pretty damn well appreciated. 1776 is a great musical, and it has some great songs, but also some serviceable ones, and though it has many moments and scenes that achieve brilliance, I don't marvel at it in any way the way I do with the others mentioned. And Grey Gardens I love, and act 2 is near genius from top to bottom... but act 1, though fitting well into the whole, isn't what I'd call "genius" or "brilliant" it's what I'd call tuneful, entertaining and serviceable to set up act 2. So it's not quite on the level as a show that I think Caroline or Change, Sunday, Sweeney, Follies, etc are on, which are, for my money, staggeringly brilliant from beginning to end. | |
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