| Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | UWS_JIM 03:07 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Finding Neverland review from WBUR (Boston's NPR station) - towel 12:54 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| The score to this show is by an English man. | |
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| And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | garyd 05:56 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - UWS_JIM 03:07 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Carl Wilson got there first, I guess. | |
| Link | http://books.google.com/books?id=mwGpAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=andrew+lloyd+webber+eurotrash&source=bl&ots=Pdggc2HIyQ&sig=nBeop3ACNKj41TGEVCzFIn0nOf0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=f37uU5mwDMycygTDwYKABA&ved=0CFYQ6 |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 07:44 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | And here I thought you guys got out more... - garyd 05:56 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| For a European the word has a very different meaning, as far as we're concerned it means that Lloyd Webber is a libidinous fashion victim who talks loudly in restaurants. I'll stick with that version.... | |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | garyd 08:07 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - ukpaul 07:44 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Means the same thing here. However, the critic is talking about the music, not the man. | |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 09:04 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - garyd 08:07 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Then I'm lost as to what he's on about. I thought it was, as mentioned below, a pejorative for regietheater, a quick scour of the internet also verified that as being true. | |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | garyd 09:14 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - ukpaul 09:04 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| I thought we were talking about Siegel's review of "Finding Neverland" and his reference to ALW's music as being, in his opinion, similar to the "eurotrash" music genre along with an interesting comment regarding post- Sondheim composers. I still think that is what he was referencing but, to be honest, I have no idea of how or why this thread veered into the direction it appears to have veered. | |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 10:34 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - garyd 09:14 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| The ter suggests someone like Serge Gainsbourg to me. I just googled 'Eurotrash music genre' and it came up with the following "If you’re fortunate enough to visit some of Europe’s finest cities, ‘eurotrash’ music (or ‘europop’ and ‘eurodance’) will invariably be resonating from a nearby bar or club. The distinct sounds of quick tinny beats, euphoric melodies and obscure vocals, often reinforced with baffling lyrics, will either draw you to the closest dance floor or cause you to plough the hire car into an unsuspecting tree." That sounds a bit like contemporary dance music to me (not a genre that I know much about). | |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | garyd 11:15 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - ukpaul 10:34 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| "The ter suggests someone like Serge Gainsbourg to me." Well, I didn't really know Gainsbourg, he was not a friend of mine, but ALW, is no Serge Gainsbourg.. The critic was, I believe, referencing something akin to the dance music you mention. Whatever, he was referencing the music, not the composer. Do we even have visual proof of ALW lounging in Ibiza? Mallorca, yes, but Ibiza? | |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 08:00 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - garyd 11:15 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Really?! That's the opposite of what Lloyd Webber is to me - he isn't the bleached, suntanned fashion victim he's the old guy in a pub drinking a gin and tonic (the analogy is geting a bit stretched here!). Is Webber really seen as young and trendy? To me he's safe, middle of the road, middlebrow. Eurovision, not Eurotrash (do Americans know Eurovision?). | |
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| re: And here I thought you guys got out more... | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 12:11 am EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - ukpaul 08:00 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| >> Is Webber really seen as young and trendy? no and no. >> To me he's safe, middle of the road, middlebrow. yes, yes and yes. | |
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| for 'ter' read 'term' - nmi | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 10:36 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And here I thought you guys got out more... - ukpaul 10:34 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| nmi | |
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| re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | bway1430 06:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - UWS_JIM 03:07 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| is, in my book, a moron. Elyse Gardner at USA used to always feel the need to scrap ALW any time she reviewed a show with a pop score. ALW may not be everyone's cup of tea but I think referring to his work as more or less, European Shit, says more about the Mr Siegel's rather inflated opinion of his own tastes than it does about ALW. I do find it hard to forgive ALW for "Stephen Ward" but for giving us "Jesus Christ Superstar", "Evita" and a beautiful "Requiem" I'll forgive anything. | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | GavinL 08:42 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - bway1430 06:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Really, I quite liked Stephen Ward, and would rather single out Starlight Express as an unforgivable atrocity... But otherwise, I agree with you wholeheartedly. | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 06:26 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - GavinL 08:42 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| And while we're at it, I'll defend the "Sunset" and "Beautiful Game" scores. | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | GavinL 11:15 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - Delvino 06:26 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Exactly... as a matter of fact, there are very few of his shows that I believe suffer from poor scores. If anything, the stories have been the killers... Aspects is a gem... even Love Never Dies has great music... but how ridiculous is that story??? Anyway, Eurotrash is such a derogatory term and so inappropriately applied to ALW... | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | bway1430 07:40 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - Delvino 06:26 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| I agree.....and "Aspects of Love", "Cats" and parts of "Woman In White" and "Whistle Down The Wind" were hardly awful. | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | GavinL 11:16 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - bway1430 07:40 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Woman In White!! I adore this score, too... jeez... Am I a Eurotrash junkie? Do I need intervention ASAP? | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | bway1430 11:52 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - GavinL 11:16 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Have to admit that I actually enjoyed the show a lot. It should have ended after the sisters were reunited but otherwise, it was a thrilling score and a decent book. | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | bway1430 11:03 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - GavinL 08:42 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| "Starlight" was my bread and butter for three years so I can't be objective on that one. It may not have been fun to listen to but it was a thrill to perform. | |
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| re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production | |
| Posted by: | GavinL 08:43 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: re:Any reviewer who takes pot shots at those not involved with the production - GavinL 08:42 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Oops... screwed up my italics. Shucks. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | garyd 05:55 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - UWS_JIM 03:07 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I am not the brightest bulb in the package but my reading of the review seem to indicate that the word "Eurotrash" is modifying the word "excrescence" rather than the British composer Andrew Lloyd Webber. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | sf 04:28 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - UWS_JIM 03:07 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Ahem. Not that I particularly want to defend the word 'eurotrash', but England is in Europe. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 05:38 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 04:28 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| all europeans are not eurotrash and, specifically, I have never heard the term used to refer to a Brit. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | sf 06:10 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ryhog 05:38 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Really? I've heard it used in relation to Lloyd Webber, and I've certainly heard it in relation to the Boublil/Schonberg shows, whose creative teams include a number of British participants. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 11:53 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 06:10 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I've really ever heard the term used in relation to opera productions, a synonym being "regietheatre." And I'm sure there have been some British directors who have done such productions. (I'm tempted to put John Doyle in that category - his Peter Grimes at the Met came dangerously close to what I'd consider regietheatre - but many other directors have perpetrated worse crimes.) | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 05:22 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - Chromolume 11:53 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Those are two totally separate things! Regietheater is a positive description of the prevailing style of much European theatre, whereby the director is the driving force of the production. Regietheater is exemplified by people such as Ostermeier, Vam Hove, in the UK Katie Mitchell etc. All of whom are outstanding practitioners in my opinion (and successful across Europe). To me, and many Brits, Eurotrash is a sort of soft porn-ish, hedonistic and humorous piece of work. It's how Brits have always seen France or Italy, as being oversexed/lax in morals. What on earth is this writer doing with the language? his application of it makes no sense to me whatsoever! | |
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| To add.... | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 05:39 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ukpaul 05:22 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Eurotrash ususally refers to a person rather than a thing, this person being (as I say) hedonistic and morally questionable. They have a penchant for high fashion and are consumeristoc and are therefore looked down on by hipsters. Looking up the term it appears as though there are two totally different meanings on different sides of the Atlantic. Not quite as embarrssing as the rubber/eraser issue but adding to the incomprehension of one to the other. | |
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| re: To add.... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 11:47 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | To add.... - ukpaul 05:39 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| I don't really see the differentiation in meaning-what you describe is substantially the same as the sense I have of it, except that here we describe the people in terms of certain clubs and restaurants or shopping streets whereas I think in Europe we think of them more in terms of the current visitors frequenting Cap d'Antibes or such. I don't think there are Brits ever included in that-it is really a continental thing-and I think that perhaps the London subgenre is decidedly distinguishable-Guy Pelly would be no one's idea of eurotrash. All that said, the point I was making was that NONE of this has anything to do with the theatre, the opera, directors et al, and it is really a bizarre misappropriation of a term that I feel pretty confident has no general application. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:18 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - Chromolume 11:53 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| wow. that's a stretch. I really don't see what that has to do with eurotrash in its accepted meaning. I'm not opposed to expanding word usage, but this one really seems at odd with the conventional meaning which is very prominent, so in that sense I fear the way some people seem to be using it in connection with the performing arts is way confusing. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 12:22 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ryhog 12:18 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| I'm confused. What do you consider the "accepted meaning?" As I said, I've really only and exclusively heard the term used in the opera world, never anywhere else. Even the first time I heard the word used, it was in reference to a "concept" opera production of some sort. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:51 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - Chromolume 12:22 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| well, outside of the narrow confines of the performing arts (and I've never really heard it used within those confines but I take your and others' words that it is used in that way), there is a fairly widely used and accepted meaning to the term eurotrash, and it has nothing to do with the usage you are familiar with in opera or that others are apparently familiar with in musical theatre. And that's what I was referring to. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 08:40 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 06:10 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| well really, I haven't, which doesn't contradict that you have. I do know that it is not a use contemplated by any dictionary I've looked at (ranging from the OED to the Urban Dictionary). That said, I am also not suggesting that the reviewer is an idiot for that reason... | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | sf 09:13 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ryhog 08:40 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I'm not suggesting the reviewer is an idiot either. I *am* suggesting that in this kind of context - written by an American in connection with musicals from outside the USA - it's a word that tends to reveal rather a lot, none of it attractive, about the attitudes of the person using it. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:11 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 09:13 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I'm not sure what to make of your 2nd paragraph, but perhaps it doesn't matter. I think the use of the term is really just someone conflating euro (referring to that which emanates from that continent) and trash (which refers to any sort of disposable junk) without tethering their usage to any extant meaning of the term eurotrash. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 06:47 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 06:10 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| The word for me is inextricably linked with the TV programme below about weird and wonderful things from the continent and beyond. "Topics covered included rabbit-showjumping, singing dogs, 'nude cleaning services', magicians, porn stars....and Europe's very worst (but usually popular in their host country) bands and singers." Classy television..... | |
| Link | Eurotrash |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | sf 06:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ukpaul 06:47 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Me too - I loved that show. Of course, that show managed to use the word *without* the inevitable sneer that accompanies it whenever an American uses it in connection with a musical. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 07:00 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 06:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I just had the image of Lloyd Webber surrounded by European lovelies and camp Frenchmen, introducing a segment about the world's only willy museum (wasn't that an actual feature?!). Was that really the intention of the reviewer?!? | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | garyd 05:58 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ryhog 05:38 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| "I have never heard the term used to refer to a Brit." I bet you have. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 04:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 04:28 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Not that it bears on this conversation really, but it depends on whom you ask. When English people refer to Europe, they generally mean continental Europe and think of it as something apart from themselves. Whenever I refer to my husband as European, he corrects me that he is English. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 05:08 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - JereNYC 04:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| There's a strand of politics here whereby some British people don't want the UK to be part of Europe, these are mostly (though not exclusively) on the political right and they'll have a kneejerk reaction to being called European in any situation. Being English as opposed to British isn't really a political thing though (although being Scottish is!), most people will just use the terms British/English in different situations (British when abroad, English when in Britain etc.) As such, if I am outside Europe then being European would seem to be a good description but not if I was inside it. Personally, being European is fine for me in any case (because we are, unless somehow we become unmoored from our current position!) | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | Ann 05:17 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ukpaul 05:08 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Doesn't really answer the question asked in Legally Blonde the musical. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 05:21 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - Ann 05:17 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I saw it but I can't remember the question - what was it? | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | Ann 05:21 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - ukpaul 05:21 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Is he gay or European? | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | sf 06:11 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - Ann 05:21 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| As if that's an either/or proposition. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 05:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - Ann 05:21 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Ah, yes. I remember now. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | sf 05:00 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - JereNYC 04:56 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| "When English people refer to Europe, they generally mean continental Europe and think of it as something apart from themselves." Really? I'm English. I am also European, and proudly so. Nigel Farage does not speak for us all. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | Live_From_London 06:47 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 05:00 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| "When English people refer to Europe, they generally mean continental Europe and think of it as something apart from themselves." I agree with that. When someone asks where your from, you dont say Europe. I'm English and have never referred to myself a European. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | towel 04:32 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - sf 04:28 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I thin that's the point. Both composers are British. | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 04:47 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - towel 04:32 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I don't think it follows that just because he calls ALW "eurotrash" means that he thinks all European composers are "eurotrash." | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | sf 04:46 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - towel 04:32 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| No shit. (Mr. Barlow went to school with my sister-in-law.) | |
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| re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 04:33 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Idiot reviewer calling Andrew Lloyd Webber "eurotrash" - towel 04:32 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| |
| Ahem, exactly! | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
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