| Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | JaglinSays 06:50 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| (pardon the pun) | |
| Link | http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/theater/finding-neverland-opens-at-american-repertory-theater.html?_r=0 |
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| Not a pan and not a review | |
| Posted by: | jesse21 07:45 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Brantley pans Neverland - JaglinSays 06:50 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| - As others have pointed out in this thread, this is not at all a pan. Nor is it a review. In fact, the Times labels Ben Brantley’s comments as “Critic’s Notebook” and not as a “Theater Review” which is the label attached to all actual reviews in the paper. It may not be his kind of show, but Mr. Brantley acknowledges that Finding Neverland has good commercial prospects on Broadway along the lines of “Wicked, Matilda and Disney’s Aladdin and the all-mighty The Lion King.” And, we must not forget the likely lift this musical will get at the box office from NBC’s live telecast of Peter Pan on December 4 even if it’s not the ratings champ as last years Sound of Music. - | |
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| yeah...and he calls it a flop | |
| Posted by: | actor103 01:54 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Not a pan and not a review - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| So, he sees it as bad theater that may make a lot of money. Not understanding the issue here? He clearly does not like the show but thinks it will make money. Done. Out. Thank you for your thoughts. Is the focus here about how to classify the review in terms of box office or art? Are we talking about marketing or theater? As a product, it is a favorable review. As theater it is a pan. Oh...yuck, how disgusting. Fear: Are theatre critics now going to start reviewing a shows marketability instead of, or inclusive of, their artistry. Oh my God, please tell me no. Though they have been suckered by slick products for years,are we now going to see critics trending towards a focus on whether something is successful as a product when dealing with Broadway? Could this be a tactic for the security of their job? Oh...going to stop now. Truly repulsed spending anymore time thinking about your need to clarify his reveiw.But if you, Jesse 21, do not see this review as a pan for the artistry, then I think you may be more at home on a board focusing on the market value of soup can labels. I mean seriously, why the spilt focus.he hates the show. Done.it can make money. So what? That splits the review. Yuck...in a big way. | |
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| Anyone with home delivery thinks that's a review. | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 08:32 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | yeah...and he calls it a flop - actor103 01:54 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| People who've only read it on-line, segregated from the rest of the paper, are missing the point: it's on the first page of the Friday Arts and Leisure section, with a carry-over on page 2, a huge photo, and the full cast and credits listing, per any Brantley review. The only major theater report in the Friday paper. John and Jane Q. Public reading this discussion of the production will clearly parse the opinions expressed as a review. We can split hairs here, reading it on-line out of context with the Times, but if you see it in print, or even as a part of your daily cyber edition (I've examined both) the distinction is ultimately pointless; it appears an early Times evaluation of a B'way bound production, one that certainly failed to earn their first tier critic's full imprimatur. I think in the rarefied world of theater boards these carefully shaded differences are rather more pronounced than elsewhere. | |
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| Reviewing the situation | |
| Posted by: | WaymanWong 10:39 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Anyone with home delivery thinks that's a review. - Delvino 08:32 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| It's a review. With a skeptical and kinda snarky tone. But it's a review nevertheless. He offers value judgments. Maybe I missed it, but why is Brantley reviewing ''Neverland'' now? Usually, when a show announces that it's heading for Broadway (as this one has), the Times lays off and treats it as an out-of-town tryout (like ''The Last Ship''). Isherwood, on the other hand, likes to see shows out of town; if he raves about them (i.e., ''American Idiot,'' ''Come Fly Away''), THEN they are announced for Broadway. And when they arrive in NYC, he re-reviews them and amps up his praise. | |
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| re: Reviewing the situation | |
| Posted by: | davei2000 05:50 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | Reviewing the situation - WaymanWong 10:39 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| The "Critic's Notebook" label, Harvey Weinstein's little talk and the reporting of it, as well as the ambivalent tone of the piece all indicate that it's outside the standard policy of the Times. I guess they decided to go ahead for its newsworthiness. Surely the paper was invited? Perhaps there was some conflict/miscommunication on the production team... | |
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| re: yeah...and he calls it a flop | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 07:55 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | yeah...and he calls it a flop - actor103 01:54 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| What I do think would be welcome is critics not relating solely their opinion but understanding how the show is aimed at an audience and whether they are that audience. First stringers here tend to be (in the words of one of them) 'male, pale and stale', and reading them shows that they have a tendency to like certain things because of that. Anyway, it reads to me that he doesn't like the idea and provenance of the show but has held back from giving his opinion on the actual show itself. That, I presume would come later, or would Isherwood now review this on Broadway? | |
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| Well, it walks like a review and it quacks like a review. | |
| Posted by: | allineedisthegirl 02:38 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Not a pan and not a review - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| (and not a good review either). db | |
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| re: Well, it walks like a review and it quacks like a review. | |
| Posted by: | lowwriter 11:07 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Well, it walks like a review and it quacks like a review. - allineedisthegirl 02:38 pm EDT 08/15/14 |
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| I love how so many people on ATC want this show to fail - not. | |
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| How is FN a "children's show" ? | |
| Posted by: | Teacher64 10:54 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | Not a pan and not a review - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 08/15/14 |
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| Have the people calling it that actually SEEN it? There is nothing in there that would keep a child's attention for more than 5 minutes. The show is mostly about snooty actors and a rather boring love story. I don't even think that most kids would "get" what happens to Sylvia at the end. | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | lowwriter 08:44 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Brantley pans Neverland - JaglinSays 06:50 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| This really isn't a pan. It's not even a real review. It's an observation of what is going on in a show that has several months to change and grow. I do wonder if they are going to keep Jordan. What ever happened to the announcement about Matthew Morrison? Though Brantley suggests this is a children's musical, there were certainly a lot of adults around me and my friends who enjoyed the preview performances we watched over the past few weeks! | |
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| First time I've ever heard the phrase... | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 06:35 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - lowwriter 08:44 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| ..."legitimate tear-jerkers..." I suppose it grudgingly admits the emotional response is earned. Damning with faint damning. | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | JayBee 09:13 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - lowwriter 08:44 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Not a pan? Didn't you read the last two paragraphs ? He, in essence, says that it' 's dead, wood, so why does the producer keep trying to bring it to life? | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:04 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - JayBee 09:13 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| because that's what producer's do? Do you think they should just read reviews and roll over and play dead? jeez. think of all the billions of lost profits that mentality would precipitate. | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | JayBee 10:45 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - ryhog 10:04 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Why are you putting words in my mouth? Read the thread carefully before you make unrelated , erroneous assumptions. | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 11:09 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - JayBee 10:45 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Your words: "so why does the producer keep trying to bring it to life?" | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | JayBee 11:14 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - ryhog 11:09 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| No, if you read the last paragraphs of the Times review carefully, I am paraphrasing the review to prove that it is, indeed, a pan of the show. As I said, read carefully before making your assumptions. | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:15 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - JayBee 11:14 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I was assuming that you were in agreement with what you paraphrased (and that that was why you did so). If not, then sorry, and you can read my reaction as being to Ben alone. | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | Teacher64 08:51 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - lowwriter 08:44 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| FINDING NEVERLAND is a children's musical, if you want to put your children to sleep. | |
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| For such a long-winded review... | |
| Posted by: | Teacher64 08:19 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Brantley pans Neverland - JaglinSays 06:50 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| ...he really doesn't say much. | |
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| re: For such a long-winded review... | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 06:41 am EDT 08/15/14 |
| In reply to: | For such a long-winded review... - Teacher64 08:19 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| But I liked his odd turn of phrase. "Didactically whimsical" to describe a certain breed of children's television - I know exactly what he means. Magic realism as a teachable moment. Yes. | |
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| re: For such a long-winded review... | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 08:25 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | For such a long-winded review... - Teacher64 08:19 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| It's less of a review than a report. | |
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| Not a Pan | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayTonyJ 07:58 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Brantley pans Neverland - JaglinSays 06:50 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Some positive statements, some skepticism, a somewhat vague prediction that an ultimately successful production is possible. The kind of article that piques my interest and makes be want to see the show when it opens on Broadway. | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 06:58 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | Brantley pans Neverland - JaglinSays 06:50 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| Reads as non-committal (and the Weinstein conversation suggests why). | |
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| re: Brantley pans Neverland | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 07:27 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Brantley pans Neverland - ukpaul 06:58 pm EDT 08/14/14 |
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| I agree that it's not a pan, but I read an undertone of skepticism about the whole venture as well as its execution (at least in the writing, not in the performance, design or choreography). | |
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