| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 01:53 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - actor103 01:24 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| Personally, based on what I know of the musical, it doesn't sound to me like it has a totally different agenda than the play on which it is based. And it certainly would not exist without the play. Flower Drum Song (the original version of the musical) billed itself as "Based on the novel by C. Y. Lee," even though it was an exceptionally free adaptation, truly more "suggested by" than "based on." But apart from contractual matters, it probably depends on your personal interpretation of what the words in question mean (and what they mean in context). Guys and Dolls billed itself as "Based on a story and characters by Damon Runyon," but if you read the story in question, you'll see how the musical basically turns the story on its head, taking two character names and their professions and the idea of a crap game and almost nothing else. It's really only suggested by the story, along with the general milieu of Runyon, using character names (and a few character traits and professions associated with those characters). My Fair Lady billed itself as "Adapted from Bernard Shaw's 'Pygmalion,'" which to me would suggest something freer than "Based on," but My Fair Lady sticks very closely to Pygmalion, carrying over vast chunks of dialogue from the play and borrowing other ideas from Shaw's published screenplay. It may be that the Shaw estate thought that Shaw would have preferred "adapted from" given his famous refusal to allow any musicals to be based on any of his plays after his extreme displeasure with The Chocolate Soldier. So I just don't think there's an answer. And, again, the producers may have no choice in the matter. Contracts with the Durrenmatt and Valency estates have already been signed. Not to mention that there is already an opera based on the Durrenmatt play and another musical based on it that I believe is currently playing in Vienna. | |
| Link | Der Besuch der Alten Dame |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:40 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - AlanScott 01:53 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| you're so much nicer than i am. | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 07:43 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - AlanScott 01:53 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| What strictures do the Durrenmatt estate have on the way it is decribed? Having been told that the Valency isthe only available version it sounds as though they've done what Complicite did, call it the original but ignore it as much as they could. | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:09 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - ukpaul 07:43 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| I don't know what strictures the Durrenment estate has on the way it is described. That's why I used the word "may" ("the producers may have no choice in the matter"). It may be that the Durrenmatt estate doesn't care, or it may be that the estate did insist on "based on." But I'd guess (though I'm not sure) that some language was agreed upon in the contract. Actually, I doubt that the producers and writers really care whether it says "based on," "adapted from," "suggested by," or "came in the box of Cracker Jacks." (Well, the writers probably care about crediting Durrenmatt.) Do you mean that it sounds like the creators of the musical have ignored what Valency did as much as possible or ignored the original play as much as possible? And I'm just remembering that Durrenmatt and I share a birthday. | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | ukpaul 04:40 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - AlanScott 04:09 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
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| It sounds as though they've made something that will work rather than following the Valency religiously. Knowing Doyle he'll have gone to the source material as his inspiration. I, however, share a birthday with Dolly Parton (those are the breaks....) | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | garyd 05:02 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - ukpaul 04:40 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
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| Has anyone read Joel Agee's translation? I just remembered I have it….somewhere. I share a birthday with Bill Clinton, Tipper Gore, and Coco Chanel. go figure. | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 11:07 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - garyd 05:02 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
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| i have. it's remarkably close to the bowles but a little tighter and as a result a bit better and i was a great fan of the bowles. | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | garyd 11:54 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - enoch10 11:07 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
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| Thanks. I know I have it in an anthology from Univ. of Chicago press but I am not sure I have read it and won't for a while since it is located in a bookcase a bit distant from my current location. My wife and I have seen the current production and, I think, it stays close to the themes of the play. That being said, it does contain an element of romance between Clair and Ill(the scene in the woods which also is in the play) which I interpret simply as an attempt to humanize both of them, a sense of regret, a sense of nostalgia, but definitely not an attempt by the current creative team to shift the focus to that of an epic love story. It remains an attempt to ironically meld musical theatre with the dark comedy of the original play. (Perhaps not successfully but a bold attempt.) I just read the Brantley review and his thoughts parallel mine. | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:45 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - ukpaul 04:40 pm EDT 08/16/14 |
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| LOL! Well, that means we're both Capricorns (although I'm right in the middle, which I'm told makes me very Capricorn). | |
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| "Applause" | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 07:21 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - AlanScott 01:53 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| Certainly comes to mind this week. Most people assume it truly is "All About Eve," a version of the film, and of course Comden and Green were famously forbidden from using the Mankiewicz screenplay until late in the process; too late, so they didn't bother. It's based on the same Mary Orr story but only uses the overall plot premise. People are still startled Addison DeWitt makes no appearance. And needless to say, the book of the musical is never quoted like the iconic film; it's not remotely in the same league, to the chagrin of anyone contemplating a revival. It's an example of an adaptation of a movie that ultimately proves only "inspired by" a classic, raising expectation that are never met. | |
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| re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwise) | |
| Posted by: | actor103 02:02 am EDT 08/16/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If it's "based on" the play, then it is an adaptation (and it doesn't pretend otherwis ... - AlanScott 01:53 am EDT 08/16/14 |
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| Thank you SO much for that post. I loved reading that. I do not know. I think this "based on", "adapted from", "Inspired by" musical is sort of its own thing. What do you really call it? I do not know or care. It just moves me deeply and labels have never served anyone or any culture well. Maybe, The Visit (musical) is just something unique unto itself. Dunno. | |
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