| word from Cambridge | |
| Posted by: | SidL 10:53 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| that when FINDING NEVERLAND opens on Broadway next year the first 20 mins will be all new | |
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| re: word from Cambridge | |
| Posted by: | Thom915 (Thom915@aol.com) 02:19 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | word from Cambridge - SidL 10:53 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Great News! I hope the new beginnings will also serve to tweak the rest of the show. There is a lot of GOOD in this show but it is still finding its way. I hope it does! Whatever one wants to say about Weinstein (and several people want to say things) he doesn't give up easily nor settle for less than what he feels he wants. | |
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| re: word from Cambridge | |
| Posted by: | Ncassidine 12:41 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | word from Cambridge - SidL 10:53 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I don't think that's at all unusual. Probably just a new opening number/scene. Apparently If/Then had a lot more change than that between DC and Broadway. | |
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| ...and by a third set of writers? (NM) | |
| Posted by: | Seth Christenfeld (tabula-rasa@verizon.net) 11:59 am EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | word from Cambridge - SidL 10:53 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Seth, snarkster | |
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| re: ...and by a third set of writers? (NM) | |
| Posted by: | JaglinSays 12:00 am EDT 08/18/14 |
| In reply to: | ...and by a third set of writers? (NM) - Seth Christenfeld 11:59 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Apparently the original director and writers were quite happy to part ways with Mr. Weinstein! | |
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| if that's what it needs, why not? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:13 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | ...and by a third set of writers? (NM) - Seth Christenfeld 11:59 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I know you are just snarking for sport, but there is a certain bipolar reaction some folks have on here where they complain about shows that move forward without being fixed, and then also kvetch when there is evidence that someone is taking steps to fix a show. Rome wasn't built in a day, the cure for polio was not am overnight inspiration etc. | |
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| re: if that's what it needs, why not? | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 09:02 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | if that's what it needs, why not? - ryhog 12:13 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| A syndrome, duly noted. Shows maligned for reaching the paying public without all problems corrected at the workshop stage are then condemned when an announced strategy for needed overhaul is perceived as creative desperation. Sometimes, perhaps it's not from abject bitchery, merely the absence of a working knowledge of the process. In this case, "Comedy Tonight" comes to mind: an added opening that established tone, point of view and even an evening's mission. It's hard to imagine "Forum" without it, only proving how mysterious the process of constructing a satisfying musical can be. | |
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| re: if that's what it needs, why not? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 12:30 am EDT 08/18/14 |
| In reply to: | re: if that's what it needs, why not? - Delvino 09:02 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| There are several stories like that, of seemingly small changes turning a show around. Not that a new opening number is such a small change, but I bet most people who saw and disliked Forum pre-Broadway would not have thought that simply changing the opening number would have made such a huge difference. Admittedly, more than just a new opening number was done when Robbins came on board. But it does seem that the new opening number was the change that turned a flop to a classic. Another example, at least according to Josh Logan, was Picnic. It was disliked out of town. They gradually realized that the audience thought they were supposed to think of Hal as the play's hero, and the audiences weren't liking him as a character, they thought he was a conceited blowhard. They added some lines (I think from Alan) in which an anti-Hal point-of-view was articulated, and that supposedly turned everything around. Paradoxically, it probably also helped the audience to like him more and to feel for him. | |
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| re: if that's what it needs, why not? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:55 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: if that's what it needs, why not? - Delvino 09:02 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| perfect example, and the operative word is, I think, alchemy. | |
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| That's true... | |
| Posted by: | sf 07:16 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | if that's what it needs, why not? - ryhog 12:13 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| ...but it's *also* true that whether or not the show's original set of writers needed replacing in the first place is a matter of opinion. I didn't think the change in personnel was necessary, although I also didn't think the show I saw in Leicester was perfect. Parts of the original score were very, very good indeed. | |
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| re: That's true... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 07:41 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | That's true... - sf 07:16 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I agree (as to the first part-the second I have no basis for comment). People can do too much, too little or somewhere in between, and some will always pine for an earlier iteration. But I don't think we can reasonable take the posture that tinkering is something to be frowned upon. | |
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| re: That's true... | |
| Posted by: | lowwriter 07:40 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | That's true... - sf 07:16 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I am very sorry that we didn't get to see Julien Ovenden's Barrie over here. Now he's naked in My Life with Reg! | |
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| Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | GrumpyMorningBoy 03:51 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | if that's what it needs, why not? - ryhog 12:13 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Went through massive changes during its various incarnations. The final product deserved its Pulitzer Prize! - GMB | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 06:22 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - GrumpyMorningBoy 03:51 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I only saw Next to Normal on Broadway, but some folks I know feel it was sort of more interesting and better in earlier incarnations. In particular, at least one person I know feels that the final version focuses too much on the main character and that the show was better when it was more of an ensemble piece, with the other characters explored more. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | AnyaS 05:54 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - GrumpyMorningBoy 03:51 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Love Next to Normal. That show fascinates me. Sure wish I could watch some of the earlier incarnations. On a different note, sometimes tinkering too much hurts a show. I have a friend whose opinion I value quite highly. He swears up and down that an earlier draft of the Little Women musical was very, very good but they kept tinkering with it until it ended up with the mess that opened on Broadway. One of my longest nights at a theater. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | wsxblue 07:53 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - AnyaS 05:54 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| It's often the case that as shows are workshopped and then have several out of town try outs - often, too many cooks, too many opinions, too many voices end up clouding the vision of the piece. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 03:57 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - GrumpyMorningBoy 03:51 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| The main difference being that the producer didn't fire the original writers. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 04:10 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - MikeR 03:57 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| That seems to miss the point entirely. Besides which, the producer of Next to Normal could not fire the original writers even if he wanted to because they, not he, controlled the rights. He was just renting them :-) | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 04:19 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - ryhog 04:10 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I wasn't making a value judgment, just stating the facts. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | bwaydiva1 04:08 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - MikeR 03:57 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Because they knew what they were doing and weren't rushing the show to Broadway. Mr. Weinstein could learn a thing or two from them. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 04:13 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - bwaydiva1 04:08 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| ...and they could learn a thing or three from him. I am not sure I understand the lesson you think he would learn from them, though. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 06:41 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - ryhog 04:13 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I think they should bring in Jerry Herman to write the score. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 06:51 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - AlanScott 06:41 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Great idea. And if that doesn't solve the problems with Finding Neverland, there would certainly be fodder for a musical in the making of it. Maybe they can get Chita to play Jerry Herman. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | garyd 07:14 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - ryhog 06:51 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| You coax the boys right out of their home, Barrie You even charm their mom with your tome, Barrie You’ll have those critics crowing Even though you’re marriage is still bland The whole of London’s glowing Since you fin-al-ly found your Neverland say goodnight, Gracie. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 07:47 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - garyd 07:14 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| works for me. Maybe we can get Wildhorn to do the sequel. He can just recycle the Wonderland crap for Neverland. | |
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| Bwaaa…! | |
| Posted by: | garyd 09:28 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - ryhog 07:47 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Yeah, well, even Wildhorn would be light years ahead of the stuff with which I just stunk up the place. I know we all wish them well. g | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 07:10 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - ryhog 06:51 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| None of this cross-gender casting, please! Kevin Kline should play Jerry Herman. Chita can play Diane Paulus. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 07:44 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - AlanScott 07:10 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| I had Kline in mind for Weinstein. Maybe we can coax Sir Ian from his Broadway retirement to play Herman. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 07:49 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - ryhog 07:44 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Lewis J. Stadlen for Weinstein. | |
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| re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:56 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: Pefect example - NEXT TO NORMAL - AlanScott 07:49 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
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| not jewish enough. it must be august. we are arguing about casting existentially inconceivable shows like we have nothing better to do. :-) | |
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| re: word from Cambridge | |
| Posted by: | lowwriter 11:02 am EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | word from Cambridge - SidL 10:53 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| That makes sense. The song with Mary and the servants has no reason to be there. I wonder if there will be song for the Peter Pan play scene in the second act. | |
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| Also... | |
| Posted by: | Whistler 01:32 pm EDT 08/17/14 |
| In reply to: | re: word from Cambridge - lowwriter 11:02 am EDT 08/17/14 |
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| Also, the time-proved Hollywood way is to bring in other artists to improve possibilities. Sometimes, it muddles, but, often, it clarifies. And this particular piece isn't high art: it's high commerce, designed to make people happy. And it looks like it's getting there. | |
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