| If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 05:56 pm EDT 09/11/14 |
|
| |
| "Initially, I was planning to tell the story from the point of view of Eva’s hairdresser. But I had a lightbulb moment when I discovered that Che Guevara was from Argentina, and had been there when the Peróns were operating. I thought: “Hang on – Che would be much more interesting than some unknown hairdresser. That way, I get two icons for the price of one.”" -Tim Rice Sorry if this was already posted. I know there was plenty of talk with the Grandage revival, and the claim being made that it was never meant to be Guevara but instead an "every man", and that Hal Prince had made it Guevara. Obviously that is not true. | |
| Link | Article on the creation of Evita |
| reply to this message | | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | allineedisthegirl 09:52 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - Chazwaza 05:56 pm EDT 09/11/14 |
|
| |
| It's always interesting to see what playwrghts say to explain their works, whether they're Tim Rice or Sondheim or Brecht. But it's also important to look into the play itself. In this case, besides wearing a beret and a beard, what Che-like things does "Che" actually do? Does he work for or plan a revolution? Not so much. What he does do is narrate a play. So the actor can put on a had a facial hair, and he can act/sing intensely or angry, but what about that constitutes "playing" Che Guevara. Is his relationship to this story (of Peron) even representative of the real Che's? In Prince's production, Patinkin looked like Che Guevara, but no-one learned anything about the character by seeing EVITA. Evita is a character, Che is a device. db | |
| reply to this message | | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 12:15 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - allineedisthegirl 09:52 am EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| Yes, he is a device... but it's very important to the piece about Eva that the device be Che and not "everyman"... what he represents as a character and a device enrich the piece and are an integral part of the concept, as far as I'm concerned. And as it turns out, Che has become a symbol to the world, not a person, so it works even better that the show takes that and uses it for their purpose. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | allineedisthegirl 02:16 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - Chazwaza 12:15 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| Totally agree with you on the larger point -- that having Che narrate and filter the events of EVITA is much more effective than using "everyman." What I don't agree with is citing a playwright's stated intention as PROOF that something or other is actually in a play. For that you have to look at the play, not what is said about it. db | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 03:13 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - allineedisthegirl 02:16 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| I suppose that's true... I don't have the text of the original Evita. I guess he should have said "Che, dressed in the iconic revolutionary garb, representing Che Guevara, who indeed this character is in a symbolic way, for the purpose of this play." But beyond stating that it is THAT Che, I don't think the play needs to use any specifics about him nor do we need to learn anything about him in the play. Just as I can have a play where Adolf Hitler (dressed as such) and Anne Frank (dressed as such) engage in a comedy of manners and never once refer to anything about their actual lives, and have it intended to be symbolic... and that won't make them any less those people in my play. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | allineedisthegirl 03:24 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - Chazwaza 03:13 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| Wow. You're taking this to a ridiculous extreme. But I'll bite. But if you put someone dressed as Hitler in a comedy of manners as you describe, no you don't necessarily have Hitler as a character in "your" play; you do have a guy dressed as Hitler though. db | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 06:39 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - allineedisthegirl 03:24 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| Ha. Yes, I am. It's fun. But there's a big difference between the character BEING Hitler but taken out of the reality of his historical reality, and a character who is a man dressed as Hitler. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | broadwaymyway 05:00 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - Chazwaza 05:56 pm EDT 09/11/14 |
|
| |
| On the other hand... "Pellow, a singer with 90s pop band Wet Wet Wet, has been playing Che in the touring production of the musical. His character isn't actually Che Guevara, but as with Harold Prince's original direction of the musical, Pellow is dressed in the same beard and revolutionary garb as the Argentine activist." | |
| Link | A different article from The Guardian |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | Ann 08:10 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - broadwaymyway 05:00 am EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| Wouldn't Tim Rice know more about it than Ben Beaumont-Thomas? | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | bobby2 12:09 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - Chazwaza 05:56 pm EDT 09/11/14 |
|
| |
| I don't know if they ever said it had never been based on Che. They just said they were changing it for their production to accommodate Ricky Martin's um...how shall we say, talents. Strange idea. Martin could have at least tried to play Guevera. The way it ended up he seemed to be like a Vanna White type figure just pointing and gesturing at the action. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | sf 12:36 pm EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - bobby2 12:09 am EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| "They just said they were changing it for their production to accommodate Ricky Martin's um...how shall we say, talents." Which is interesting in itself, given that the revival - and this particular characterisation of Che - originated in London several years before Mr. Martin was cast. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | Chazwaza 04:27 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - bobby2 12:09 am EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| I very distinctly remember the concept being put out there by someone involved with the production that it was never the original intention for Che to be specifically Guevara. Very distinctly. But either way, yes, a very misguided and damaging directorial decision... one of many. I did not love this production at all. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | bobby2 06:05 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - Chazwaza 04:27 am EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| you know. you just jogged my memory chazawaza. I remember them saying that now too. what a dumb movie. Martin did pretty good with vocals. why erer they so afraid to let him act the role? | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | mikem 10:40 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - bobby2 06:05 am EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| Didn't someone mention that some of the original lyrics were very Che Guevara - specific? Something about insecticide? That seemed to make it clear that the original concept was that Che, the character, was based on Che Guevara, the actual person. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... | |
| Posted by: | JAllenC3 11:28 am EDT 09/12/14 |
| In reply to: | re: If there was any question about Che in Evita being Che Guevara... - mikem 10:40 am EDT 09/12/14 |
|
| |
| Yes, the concept album referenced the insecticide throughout. And while we don't learn a ton about who Che is in the show, there are a lot of little seeds of it throughout. "or just a man who grew and saw from 17 to 24" - Che, which was his actual age during the Peron regime. "whip up your hate in some tottering state but not here dear" - Eva From the concept album: "I always thought my country right or wrong / I used to say here's where I belong / but that's a joke I might as well have been / as loyal to Afghanistan, the south of the France, Japan, Hong Kong" - Che... in fact Tim Rice wrote once about how he intentionally left Cuba off that list because he thought it was too on the nose. I've always seen the show as a hypothetical flashback where we follow Che as he wonders what the outcome of the Peron regime had been if he had been involved politically. And then it's going through these events in his head that eventually lead him to the decision to go off and become "Che Guevara." None of that is in the text certainly, but it's a fascinating approach for the actor playing Che to take which makes him more than just a "device" as someone said elsewhere in the thread. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
All That Chat is intended for the discussion of
theatre news and opinion
subject to the terms and conditions of the Terms of Service. (Please take all off-topic discussion to private email.)
Please direct technical questions/comments to webmaster@talkinbroadway.com and policy questions to TBAdmin@talkinbroadway.com.
[ Home | On the Rialto | The Siegel Column | Cabaret | Tony Awards | Book Reviews | Great White Wayback Machine ]
[ Broadway Reviews | Barbara and Scott: The Two of Clubs | Sound Advice | Restaurant Revue | Off Broadway | Funding Talkin' Broadway ]
[ Broadway 101 | Spotlight On | Talkin' Broadway | On the Boards | Regional | Talk to Us! | Search Talkin' Broadway ]
Terms of Service
[ © 1997 - 2014 www.TalkinBroadway.com, Inc. ]
Time to render: 0.104556 seconds.