| My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... | |
| Posted by: | flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| TWELVE SHOWS IN SEVEN DAYS: #1) - 'ALLEGRO' - A dozen actors singing and acting and playing violins and trumpets and clarinets and you name it, with the show trimmed down to 90-intermissionless-minutes, and set on a bare stage. Not much on plot, here. But the cast and the songs are wonderful! #2) - 'THE GIRL WHO CAME TO SUPPER' - Two leads were very good, and I got a better idea of exactly how the songs drop into the story in this old 1963 Noel Coward flop. But, as always with 'Musicals Tonight!,' production values were minimal and in questionable taste. As was much of the casting and staging. Still, a pleasant enough way to spend a Friday afternoon. And it's certainly an honorable effort on the part of producer Mel Miller to try and reproduce these old shows today. I applaud and support him for that. #3) - 'SIDE SHOW' - Hated the original B'way production, LOVED this one! Big, handsome, true to period, and put together with the best possible taste. Also, these leading ladies are the top! After the show, I spent $80 on souvenirs: the magnet, the baseball cap and the tote bag. Not to be missed! #4) - 'STICKS & BONES' - Anti-war Vietnam play, shocking in its day (when I first saw it), and it still is. Rambles along for THREE FULL HOURS, though, with every sort of horror thrown in the audience's collective face along the way. Example: I was in the front row, and early on in the proceedings Holly Hunter (looking a lot like Julie Harris these days) threw up right in front of me. And it was so real that, for a moment, I wasn't quite sure if it was actually a part of the play or not. The vomit certainly looked very real! ... I should've gone to 'DISGRACED.' #5) - 'ON THE TOWN' - Every rave it recently received from New York critics, it certainly deserves. Terrific production, wonderful dancing, and fine singing from such a talented cast! Not to be missed!! #6) - 'RADIO CITY CHRISTMAS SPECTACULAR' - Though much is the same from year-to-year, it all seemed even more dazzling and fun to me THIS particular year. Don't know why. Rockettes were sensational!, as always. And what else can you do on a Sunday morning at 10:00? Glad I went. #7) - 'YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU' - Biggest delight? Annaleigh Ashford (plays Betty, the blonde floozy secretary on Showtime's 'MASTERS OF SEX'), who - up close (I was in the first row) - looks amazingly VERY YOUNG!? Biggest disappointment? Elizabeth Ashley, who - up close - seems to have hardly any speaking voice left. But this production IS a delight, and the set IS gorgeous, and the cast IS (for the most part) terrific. Had a great time! #8) - 'THE BAND WAGON' - Pleasantly entertaining. No more, no less. (Though perhaps a little corny-hokey near the end.) Cast was terrific, as was the dancing/singing chorus. And all expertly polished and put together by Kathleen Marshall. I DID enjoy it, and am really glad I caught it closing night. #9) - 'A DELICATE BALANCE' - Never heard so much COUGHING in a theater in my LIFE! Four scenes poured over three acts and two intermissions, coming in at two hours and fifty minutes in length. I saw Rosemary Harris, George Grizzard and Elaine Stritch and, before that, Jessica Tandy, Hume Cronyn and the great Rosemary Murphy perform this play in handsome productions. This, too, is a handsome production, with a great cast. But it comes in third in the competition, for my money. ... PS - Take a BIG nap before you go. #10) - 'IT'S ONLY A PLAY' - I think I smiled far more than I actually laughed-out-loud at the proceedings. Good all-star cast having fun in a very slight play that is at least an HOUR too long. But I first saw it when it was 'BROADWAY, BROADWAY' and, rest assured, it's greatly improved over the years in rewrites. Paid a very high price for my ticket - what would be considered a high price for a MUSICAL, in fact. And yet, on a cold November Tuesday, there were some empty seats along the extreme sides of the orchestra, which quite surprised me. Isn't this a huge HIT!? #11) - 'THE LAST SHIP' - It's so rare these days to sit and hear a new song (to me, anyway) in a theater for the first time and LOVE it! That happened several times to me with this show. The songs are foot-stomping glorious! Performed by a sensational cast. I cannot wait for the cast recording to be released. As for the plot, it's a bit dark and gloomy and confusing, and not particularly original. Who cares? I had a great time. Not to be missed! #12) - 'HONEYMOON IN VEGAS' - What a disappointment. Pluses: the score, Rob McClure's performance, and that band. Negatives: the show isn't all that funny. And it's long. ... Sorry, it's just not a great show! And I had been led to believe it was, so I went in with high expectations, I suppose. Still, in all fairness, I did see only the second preview, and it WAS my last show to take in on this trip, so perhaps I was just tired by the time I got to it. Cast album (which I purchased in the lobby for $25, CASH ONLY) sounds great, by the way. THE BEST OF THE LOT THIS TRIP: 'ON THE TOWN,' 'THE LAST SHIP,' and 'SIDE SHOW.' WHAT I'M SORRY I MISSED THIS TRIP: 'DISGRACED,' 'THE REAL THING,' 'INDIAN INK,' 'THE RIVER,' 'CABARET' (with Emma Stone) and, of course, 'THE ELAINE STRITCH MEMORIAL.' I'm tired. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:16 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I envy you having seen the original production of A Delicate Balance. As I've posted (and so forgive me for being repetitive), I much preferred the current production to the 1996 production. And regarding coughing: I don't think I've ever heard more coughing in the theatre than during the third act when I saw the 1996 production. While the audience was very attentive and laughing a lot during the first two acts the night I saw it, when the third act, they suddenly developed very bad summer (or late spring) colds. Did you see the Mufti Girl Who Came to Supper with Nancy Anderson, SImon Jones and Celeste Holm in 1999? It was very nicely done, but the show really kind of problematic. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayTonyJ 05:12 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - AlanScott 04:16 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Did Holm play the Queen Mother? I assume that at age 82 she wouldn't have been able to handle Ada Cockle's song cycle. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:15 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - BroadwayTonyJ 05:12 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Yes, she was the queen mother. This was not too long before her stroke. After that, she would not have been able to do it. Even in 1999, her voice was a bit quiet, and you had to listen closely to hear her. But she was still together enough to nail her laughs, even in a staged reading with little rehearsal. Her timing and delivery were great. Evelyn Baron played Ada Cockle, and very well. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | Duke1979 04:52 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - AlanScott 04:16 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I will never forget the 1996 production because entirely apart from the outstanding performances (Stritch in particular), a cell phone went off during George Grizzard's big speech. It was in the era where cell phones were not as omnipresent. Grizzard told the lady to shut the f----ing thing off. Stritch was speechless but then it all resumed. A magnificent production and I am looking forward to the current version. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:58 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - Duke1979 04:52 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Slight spoiler about the current production below. Good for Grizzard. He was probably the best thing about that production, although I felt he struggled a bit, as does Lithgow, with the big aria in act three. As I recall it, Grizzard played it very differently than Lithgow is doing. My memory is that Grizzard kept it low while Lithgow is treating it as a sort of breakdown. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 05:01 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - AlanScott 04:58 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I saw the first performance after Grizzard won the Tony and he went up on his lines in the dog speech. Stritch helped him get back on track, but I could feel the effort the play cost him for the rest of the night. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | theaterguy 05:51 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - whereismikeyfl 05:01 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| It's refreshing to hear about Stritch helping someone ELSE who went up on their lines, lol. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:09 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - whereismikeyfl 05:01 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Do you mean the cat speech? The best performance I ever saw from Grizzard was in the last thing I saw him do, Seascape. I thought that was the performance for which he deserved awards. (Not saying that he didn't also deserve awards for A Delicate Balance.) And he didn't even receive a Tony nomination. That's the kind of thing that makes me feel so strongly that awards are incredibly silly. When I'm asked about the greatest performances I've seen onstage, most of the ones I cite will be before 1990. One of the few more recent ones that I might cite is Grizzard in Seascape. A heroic performance that made a problematic play work as well as I suspect it ever will (though I know Albee had reservations on the production). | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | TheOtherOne 10:05 am EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - AlanScott 05:09 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| "When I'm asked about the greatest performances I've seen onstage, most of the ones I cite will be before 1990." Ditto, Alan, although in my case that has as much to do with how much more impressionable (or how much less jaded, depending on how you look at it) I was than with any deterioration of NY stage acting that might have occurred over time. I often cite Alan Bates in "Fortune's Fool" as my favorite performance by an actor. I was over 40 when I saw him, and I didn't think it was possible for anyone to have such an effect on me anymore. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:05 pm EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - TheOtherOne 10:05 am EST 11/23/14 |
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| I agree. When we're younger, we have less to compare with. If you're a frequent theatregoer, all those early performances that floored you when you were young (or at least younger than you are now) loom larger and larger over the years. It's tough (though not impossible) for later performances to equal the impact of what you remember. Of course, this does not seem to be true for everyone. Some people do think that there are fewer great stage actors today, and I sometimes do wonder a bit if that's true. But then I don't want to be like Shamraev in The Seagull. Bates was quite wonderful, I agree. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | TheOtherOne 11:18 am EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - TheOtherOne 10:05 am EST 11/23/14 |
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| Just adding that I loved George Grizzard in both "Seascape" and "A Delicate Balance." | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | garyd 07:53 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - AlanScott 05:09 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Agree about Grizzard in "Seascape" though I enjoyed the entire production. Did not know, or don't remember, Albee's reservations. What were they? And, I dunno, I bet I can come up with a fairly decent post 1990 list of excellent performances…well maybe not greatest. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:28 pm EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - garyd 07:53 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I'm linking an excerpt from the interview in which Albee discussed it. Unfortunately, it seems that you now have to pay to access the complete interview. I could come up with a list of great post-1990 performances, but for whatever reason few if any floored me in the way that I remember earlier performances affecting me. It may simply be that for some of us the stuff we see earlier makes a greater impression because we have less to compare it with. | |
| Link | Albee on his threatening lizards |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 05:55 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? .../George Grizzard tirade - AlanScott 05:09 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Sorry. Yes it was the cat speech. It did not get along with the dog speech so the dog speech left. | |
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| Question about "THE GIRL WHO CAME TO SUPPER". | |
| Posted by: | NW 04:08 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| You say: "But, as always with 'Musicals Tonight!,' production values were minimal and in questionable taste. As was much of the casting and staging." What was in questionable taste about the staging, casting, and production values? I saw an earlier performance and while the Musicals Tonight! staging is pretty minimal I see this as a function of their budget and not of taste. Those Friday matinees are very convenient. | |
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| re: Question about "THE GIRL WHO CAME TO SUPPER". | |
| Posted by: | flaguy 05:52 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | Question about "THE GIRL WHO CAME TO SUPPER". - NW 04:08 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| "What was in questionable taste about the staging, casting, and production values? I saw an earlier performance and while the Musicals Tonight! staging is pretty minimal I see this as a function of their budget and not of taste." Well, I'm not going to be that evil and go into it in detail, but ... Did you notice how many Equity actors were in that cast? Quite a lot. And that's the best Equity cast they could come up with in New York (leading lady excepted)? Also, their set design - sliding those panels in and out, that inform us of where we are now. Soooooooooo unneccesary. And tacky. It could all be done with so much more simplicity (if we're talking about budget), in better taste than that. But, then, that's just my humble opinion. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayTonyJ 01:23 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I love your capsule summaries -- they are so perceptive. I really envy your depth of experience regarding A Delicate Balance, which is a staggeringly profound play. I saw the film (which had a great cast) back in '73, but this is a story that is best encountered live. Monday night was the first time I saw this play on stage -- Lithgow and Close really moved me, but I assume you must have been blown away by the stellar teams you caught years ago. BTW, I saw The Last Ship when it premiered in Chicago over the summer. I agree that the book is murky and deeply problematic, but the score (especially What Say You, Meg) and the performances made this original musical worth seeing. Congratulations on such a great trip! | |
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| cross the river off that list | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 12:51 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| You missed nothing and if you are complaining about the cost of its only a play, which I agree was too long but very funny, then you'd really have something to complain about for river ticket prices. Too bad you didn't like honeymoon. I really liked it in papermill and it doesn't seem like much has changed from what I'm reading. I'll probably see it in the spring swhich is rare for me to repeat a show on Broadway--although technically I didn't see it on Broadway yet. I find your love of side show now and not the original interesting. I loved both versions, but it's interesting to see that the revisions were good to have someone switch. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... | |
| Posted by: | BwyDan 12:43 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| Sounds like a great trip! I too, loved ON THE TOWN, especially, the dancing/chreography; hearing that glorious score played by that great, big orchestra; the 3 leading men; and the actress playing Claire de Loon (I even love typing that name). Plus I had the thrill of seeing this particular show on Veteran's Day! But for me, this production would have been far greater if 2 roles were played by others: those played by Jackie Hoffman (zzzzzzz) and, THE female role in the show: Hildy (good singer but oddly, very slight comedy chops). Still, I'm really glad I saw it. | |
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| I NEVER miss | |
| Posted by: | aislestorm 11:34 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| a good $80 tote bag. | |
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| "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" | |
| Posted by: | MockingbirdGirl 11:27 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| Seriously? Was it a gold-plated magnet? :-o | |
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| re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" | |
| Posted by: | flaguy 12:10 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" - MockingbirdGirl 11:27 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| "Seriously? Was it a gold-plated magnet?" The clerk broke my bill down like this: $25 for the baseball cap, $40 for the (super cool) tote bag, $15 for the magnet. I later saw the same magnet in a souvenir shop for $12.95. Other show magnets generally sell for $10 in the theatre, which is what I paid for 'THE LAST SHIP,' 'THE BAND WAGON' and 'ON THE TOWN.' Clerks in each of those lobbies were SHOCKED to hear 'SIDE SHOW' was selling theirs for $15, by the way. And, of course, these magnets probably come from China at five bucks a gross. Grrr. | |
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| Hope you've learned your lesson! | |
| Posted by: | Ann 10:34 am EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" - flaguy 12:10 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| You've shamed your refrigerator. ;) | |
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| At the flea market it would be $5 | |
| Posted by: | oddone 02:02 am EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" - flaguy 12:10 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Or $1 by the end of the day. Obviously not everyone can be in town for the flea market But another "benefit" of living in NYC, per the thread below.... | |
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| re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 02:57 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" - flaguy 12:10 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| >> $15 for the magnet wow. is this something new or another escalation in price i managed to miss until now? | |
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| re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 08:43 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" - enoch10 02:57 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| When I was at "Once" recently (comped), I was appalled to see the prices they were charging for programs, CDs, hoodies, etc. Anywhere from $10 - $25 over the normal price for such items when they are not attached to a musical. It really hammered home the level of expendable income you must have to be a Broadway-phile. | |
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| re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" | |
| Posted by: | Shutterbug 04:59 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" - enoch10 02:57 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I was there in 10/31. I'm sure I only paid $10 for the magnet. I never would have bought it for $15 | |
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| i think the price includes tax | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 12:53 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: "$80 on souvenirs: magnet, baseball cap and tote bag" - flaguy 12:10 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| So that $13 in a theater shop probably costs close to $14.50 with tax anyway. | |
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| And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 09:23 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I'm not being glib or personal, I'm just intrigued with the bite such a trip takes out of one's bank account. I remember such trips in my youth, before I moved to New York, and full-price ticket prices were so doable. Ditto, London, where I went yearly, once twice, in the 70s and with my meager income could still afford it. Now, I cannot imagine what a trip like yours cost. But I am so impressed and moved by the range of shows you took in, truly you covered the spectrum available in New York at the moment. It sounds like a wonderful time, and dare I say: worth every penny, still. That's what surprises me, as much as I bemoan the prices. Even after shows I don't like, I have no regrets. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | jtong43 (jtong43@hotmail.com) 12:17 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Delvino 09:23 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| Was in NYC in Oct with daughter and sister. Saw three shows (It's Only A Play, Matilda & Aladdin) with an average price of $140 each per ticket. Plus hotel ($280 a night). Could only do that once a year and could not see many more shows. (BTW- we enjoyed all three.) | |
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| for me it's the hotel costs | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 11:57 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Delvino 09:23 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| Best westerns are all over $200 and most over $300. I now stay in queens because I can get under 150. A few weeks ago I paid 110 average for 3nights. It's strange, I can justify 150 theater ticket but will skimp on the hotel room to save 150, but I won't skimp on tickets and sit in the balcony. Plus, most people travel in couples, so ticket prices are double. For the single folk, it's just one ticket and usually a good location. | |
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| re: for me it's the hotel costs | |
| Posted by: | retfar 06:21 am EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | for me it's the hotel costs - dramedy 11:57 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I use Hotwire (or Priceline) and get amazing deals. Through Hotwire, for Dec 22-31 (9 nights), I got the Tryp Wyndham Times Square (on 35th) for $1,850 and that's during the Christmas period which is really expensive in New York. It's 4.5 star and I stayed there in May and it was fantastic. Pretty good size room, huge bathroom, close to everything. Especially sine I will there in winter, I like staying close to the theatres. | |
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| re: for me it's the hotel costs | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:18 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | for me it's the hotel costs - dramedy 11:57 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| i don't know what they're called so I'm can't tell you how to look them up but have you herd about these illegal hotels that cost less than a hundred a night? there was one close to my house that was there for years and from what i've been told there another a few blocks away. they're like hostiles for adults. i'm sure they're the kind of place you'd only want to sleep but figure every 2 days your saving enough for an orchestra seat and it would be worth it. | |
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| I do draw the line at shared bathrooms | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 03:44 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: for me it's the hotel costs - enoch10 03:18 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| So most hostiles have shared baths. I do just like to a lay out the toiletries and go,to the bathroom at night without getting dressed. I checked out pod hotels, but those are as expensive as regular. I've also looked at arirbab, but most are shared situation. | |
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| re: I do draw the line at shared bathrooms | |
| Posted by: | garyd 06:50 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | I do draw the line at shared bathrooms - dramedy 03:44 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I agree with you but the Larchmont on West 11th is a good place. Shared bath but sink in room and I think they have done something to the first floor rooms and they are en-suite. Don't know pricing anymore. | |
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| "Hostiles"? | |
| Posted by: | sf 03:46 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | I do draw the line at shared bathrooms - dramedy 03:44 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Shared bathrooms aren't THAT bad! | |
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| They are cheaper for a reason | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 04:25 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | "Hostiles"? - sf 03:46 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Not everyone agrees with you about sharing bathrooms. | |
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| re: They are cheaper for a reason | |
| Posted by: | sf 04:31 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | They are cheaper for a reason - dramedy 04:25 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I was referring more to the difference between the words "hostel" and "hostile". They aren't interchangeable. As for sharing bathrooms: my philosophy, and I'm aware not everyone feels the same way, is that I'd rather have the trip I can afford than no trip at all. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | Ann 09:53 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Delvino 09:23 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I wonder what the comparison would be if you looked at the total cost of being a New York theatregoer (living expenses, ticket prices for more shows) vs being an out of towner who travels in. Now, some out of towners live in other expensive places to live, but most probably don't compare to living in New York. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:21 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Ann 09:53 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I think you would find that many folks living in NYC do not have living expenses significantly different than those in other cities. Unquestionably, we get much less space for the same money, but we also spend, on average, under $150 a month on transportation whereas the average person living elsewhere spends many times that much. Food costs, I find, balance out as well. The average visitor is accessing goods and services that cost significantly more than a local spends, and of course we also tend to make somewhat more in comparable circumstances. Locals don't pay inflated hotel prices, shop in stores in high traffic areas or even pay a lot for theatre tickets, except on special occasions. Yes there are a lot of people here with the wherewithal to spend as much as they please, but that is not comparable as that can be said for most relatively prosperous areas in the country. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | Thom915 (Thom915@aol.com) 02:23 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - ryhog 10:21 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| WHAT? Find any statistical based article that finds the cost of consumer prices in NY comparable to any but a handful of urban centers in this country! You are confusing the cost of visiting a city with the cost of living in a city. Visiting is going to be higher but the cost of rent especially in New York (and as stated a few other urban areas) is a good percentage points higher than most of the United States. Just compare a one bedroom (and never mind about the square footage) in most cities to anywhere in NYC. Food is a bit more equal but usually more inexpensive out of town The same with clothing and other good(normal price often equivalent to a good sale price in NY) We have a slight advantage in transportation if one uses public transportation (as one does in Manhattan) but if one uses a car (as is often the case in the other boroughs, that advantage evaporates.) And we may not pay full price on theater tickets but what we do pay is often the equivalent of a full price ticket for a professional show out of town. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 08:50 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Thom915 02:23 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| And I so hate to agree with Ryhog... At this point of time, most Americans live in urban areas. Cost of living in at least a good third of those cities are largely comparable. My hometown has seen prices go through the roof in the past ten years - when I go back, I no longer have sticker shock. If anything, nowadays I think, "$8 for a sandwich... that's New York prices". And the same is true the world over - prices for an affluent lifestyle in Bangkok or Beijing equal those of New York. You have to be in lower tier cities before you see prices dropping considerably. Likewise, if you know where to look, you can still find a good meal near Times Square for under $10. As for all of us who live in boroughs, I can promise you that most of us either lack a vcar as well, or have a car for minimal use. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 05:01 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Thom915 02:23 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I'm linking what I replied below to josiahjosiah. ryhog and I seem to view this somewhat similarly. | |
| Link | Comparisons are not always equal |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 02:38 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Thom915 02:23 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| What I observe does not agree with what you are saying. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:02 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - ryhog 02:38 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| where are you seeing housing/rent prices comparable to new york anywhere but in major urban centers? | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 03:10 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - enoch10 03:02 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| when i look at what i spend and what most people i know spend. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:14 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - ryhog 03:10 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| mmmnnn ... i think that data is a bit too informal unless everyone you know is in a rent stabilized apartment. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 09:12 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - enoch10 03:14 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Conversely, are you only considering people in market-rate condos? That is still not the life of the average New Yorker. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | Thom915 (Thom915@aol.com) 01:25 am EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Singapore/Fling 09:12 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Where does he say he is considering people only in market rate condos? And living in rent stabilized apartments is not the life of a majority of New York residents either unless you live in the Bronx. One says you can still get a good meal under $ 10 in Times square if you know where to go. Do you think people in other cities don't know where to get a good meal in their town possibly for under $ 8? I take the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in New york to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,000. That takes into consideration all the rent stabilized apartments as well as market rate and one can still find in a good many cities a good one bedroom for between $650 and $ 800 a month, a substantial difference. Statistics are useful for one purpose. We cannot take one lifestyle and apply it across the board and say this then is the way it is for everyone. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 09:29 am EST 11/23/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Thom915 01:25 am EST 11/23/14 |
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| Thom, I'll accept your average rental price estimates (though not your characterization of rent stabilized apts). Now please add in the additional cost of a car, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc. instead of a monthly metro card. Re food cost, the more germane comparison would be straight up food costs, not a restaurant, even a cheap one. it is quite possible to obtain most food in new york for less than elsewhere, with a modest effort. It is true, of course, that most of us don't sweat the bucks quite as hard as this, because we also make more than folks so elsewhere. But that is not to suggest that it can't be a struggle to be a young person moving to New York especially as a theatre person. That's why we hear stories about survival jobs, and about the arc that follows that story through modest successes professionally as well as the success of finally getting that apartment at Manhattan Plaza. Certainly there are compromises, and certainly everyone is not willing to (or even interested to) make them. But the typical experience cost-wise of someone who has been living here for 25+ years of adulthood is not significantly different than anywhere else. And that's all I set out to say, and that others have agreed with. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 10:22 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Singapore/Fling 09:12 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I LIKE agreeing with you :-) It is worth remembering, for those who do not live here and who get most of their info from statistical reports, that there are well over a million regulated apartments in this city. That's not to say there should not be more, but it is more than the total number of dwellings in most of the big cities in this country. There are also more dwellings in this city that cost over $20 million than there are dwellings of any kind in a lot of cities. Statistics are funny things. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 03:22 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - enoch10 03:14 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| i would say most are, or they are in some other non-standard living arrangement like a share. But I think that is a reality that these stats don't contemplate. | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | Guillaume 11:44 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - ryhog 10:21 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| That must have been a good workout, sweeping all those generalizations on behalf of NYC! | |
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| re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:23 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - Guillaume 11:44 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I don't get your issue. It's clear I was not generalizing; I was explaining how things stack up and why. I made clear that there was no one size fits all answer, so where was the generalization? Or did you just think it would be clever to use sweep as a transitive verb? | |
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| MEOW...try the Google | |
| Posted by: | josiahjosiah 02:49 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: And did you take out a 2nd mortgage? - ryhog 12:23 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| for instance, using a cost of living calculator, like: http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/ shows that Groceries 47%more Housing 342%more Utilities 19%more Transportation 13%more Health Care 9%less compared to where I live in Massachusetts! (No comparison for entertainment, literally or figuratively speaking.) | |
| Link | http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/ |
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| Things to remember | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 04:55 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | MEOW...try the Google - josiahjosiah 02:49 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I don't have the patience right now to look closely at the cnn page, but I think it primarily deals with what it would cost to move to New York now as opposed to what it would cost to move to, for example, Chapel Hill. Many longtime New Yorkers either bought their homes or apartments long ago or are living in rent-stabilized (and some still in rent-controlled) apartments. I would probably have to pay more rent, not less, if I moved to another city. And I know that there are hundreds of thousands of other New Yorkers for which that would be true. Similarly, when you post that about transportation, I have to wonder if it is based on comparing what the average New Yorker spends on transportation compared to what the average person in your part of Massachusetts spends. Because relatively few New Yorkers have cars, we probably on average spend a lot less on transportation than people almost anywhere else in the country. Now if that survey is comparing what it costs a New Yorker with a car for transportation compared with what it costs someone in Massachusetts with a car, then New York is more expensive. And I suspect that's what it is basically doing. It's comparing the cost of the uses of the same types of transportation from one city to another, not what the average New York spends on transportation as opposed to what the average person pays on transportation elsewhere. If so, and I'm pretty sure, it's an apples and oranges comparison. Even a lot of New Yorkers who do have cars use them relatively rarely compared to people elsewhere so gas costs are much less and wear on the car can be less. On the relatively rare occasions when I travel to other cities, I do find that many things are cheaper. But I'm also surprised to find that some things are not cheaper, or not much cheaper. Especially if you're a longtime New Yorker and you know where to shop and where to go out to dinner, you can live surprisingly inexpensively here. And even young people I know who've moved here in recent years without a lot of money have found ways to live here for surprisingly little. Obviously, it can also be extremely expensive living here. But I think that some surveys can be very misleading. | |
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| re: Things to remember | |
| Posted by: | garyd 07:22 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | Things to remember - AlanScott 04:55 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| Well, living in "world class" cities is expensive. Period. We have many friends who have either lived in NYC forever and friends like us who moved here in the late 60's /early seventies. Their cost of living is high but much lower than those who have moved in recently. If property is owned, one also must figure in property taxes and residency, either property owner or renter, involves income taxes as well. California taxes are horrible while NY are totally absurd. We live in "both" the SF Bay Area and NYC so we are pretty much screwed in a weird bicoastal enigma. But, due to dumb luck, or more accurately, my wife's exquisite intuition, we bought in both places in the early 70's so that sort of helps. Of course, if you want to talk insanity, let's gather around the table and discuss London. Bottom line, however, if you are a theatre freak, as we are all here, then it is possible but increasingly financially difficult to visit NYC and see what we want to see. But this is our avocation so it is how we choose to spend our money. February weather can be crummy but the prices are right. | |
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| re: MEOW...try the Google | |
| Posted by: | Ann 03:05 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | MEOW...try the Google - josiahjosiah 02:49 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| I saw a statistic that said, as of last month, average rental within 10 miles of New York is $2933 for a one bedroom. Where I live, the average is less than a third of that (other big cities are more like half; a couple are equal). Homes for purchase are even farther apart. (Of course, we have more room, so we buy more stuff.) With the difference in housing, even adding in a car, the fact that some of us can afford a few trips into New York isn't shocking, it's just a different distribution. Tougher for dramedy than me, though ;) | |
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| re: MEOW...try the Google | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 03:19 pm EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: MEOW...try the Google - Ann 03:05 pm EST 11/22/14 |
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| that sounds like a bloated real estate industry stat, not any reality i am familiar with. all i am saying is that folks who choose to live here (and it is, obviously, a choice) find a way of making it all work in a way that involves compromises that would not be palatable anywhere else. But what we would say is, it's not anywhere else. even if we were to take that $2933 as correct-and it can't be except at some new rental level that disregards rent subsidized and stabilized-it also fails to ask how many unrelated people live in that 1 BR apt. In Pittsburgh, the answer is generally going to be 1, whereas in NYC it is more likely to be 2-3. Now recalculate, factoring in the fully distributed cost of a car as well, and you'll see what I mean. | |
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| re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... | |
| Posted by: | Ann 08:56 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - flaguy 08:39 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| Since I was at the same performance of The Girl Who Came to Supper, I'd like to add these pluses: * Friday afternoon matinee (for those coming in for a theatre trip, a bit plus) * Peter Filichia talkback with the assistant stage manager of the original production, who is charming and told some interesting stories * it's a cheap ticket, especially if you're in the TDF program | |
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| The music in THE LAST SHIP ... | |
| Posted by: | seeseveryshow 09:15 am EST 11/22/14 |
| In reply to: | re: My recent 12 Shows in 7 Days, ... briefly? ... - Ann 08:56 am EST 11/22/14 |
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| I agree with flaguy about the music in THE LAST SHIP. "August Winds" and "What Say You Meg" are surely not foot stompers, but beautiful ballads. I clicked through the All That Chat link recently and ordered the cast recording. I haven't purchased a Broadway show cd for myself in years. Until it arrives, I can enjoy some of the new show's music on youtube. | |
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