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re: Thank you; can't be stated enough.

Posted by: Ann 08:12 am EST 01/16/15
In reply to: Thank you; can't be stated enough. - Delvino 06:16 am EST 01/16/15

... it takes just as much work to write a bad play as to write a good one.

I don't know that I agree there. I think shows based on movies frequently just replicate what has already been done, dressing it up with theatre accoutrements to try to repackage it. I think it takes more work to make a transformation (or to write something new).


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re: Thank you; can't be stated enough.

Posted by: lowwriter 10:12 am EST 01/16/15
In reply to: re: Thank you; can't be stated enough. - Ann 08:12 am EST 01/16/15

But even if they are using plot elements from the movie isn't some transformation going on by adding a score?


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Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: Delvino 08:46 am EST 01/16/15
In reply to: re: Thank you; can't be stated enough. - Ann 08:12 am EST 01/16/15

Who has rather famously said some of the hardest work in her career has been on the libretti for SECRET GARDEN, COLOR PURPLE and BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY. She toiled mightily on BRIDGES, and the results were the most criticized (count me among the naysayers of her work there; the show ended 3 times at least). And her COLOR PURPLE work has been retought in the Menier edition coming to B'way. Adaptation may seem easier, but the distillation and condensation of existing material comes with its own demands and myriad challenges. That said, to your point: interesting that the IF/THEN effort wasn't given more credit for starting from scratch by more people.


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re: Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: StageLover 11:09 am EST 01/16/15
In reply to: Still, ask Marsha Norman. - Delvino 08:46 am EST 01/16/15

Maybe that's because the book was confusing as hell, leaving many in the audience scratching their heads.

Let's be honest: had IF/THEN not had Menzel, the show would have closed in two weeks.


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re: Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: Ann 08:49 am EST 01/16/15
In reply to: Still, ask Marsha Norman. - Delvino 08:46 am EST 01/16/15

You're right, it can be as hard but in a different way (a way which can get the writer in a new kind of trouble). Those weren't examples I was initially thinking of. But some adaptations seem very lazy.

I think If/Then did get a lot of credit for being original - but it still has to be (viewed as being) good.


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re: Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: ryhog 09:49 am EST 01/16/15
In reply to: re: Still, ask Marsha Norman. - Ann 08:49 am EST 01/16/15

I think you can be lazy just as easily with an original story as with an adapted one. Laziness finds its owner.

There is a school of thought that there are no original stories, just more obscure ones. But I think the truth is, you can come up with a story for a musical on a lazy afternoon and if you want to persist in your laziness, you can build a whole show on the "work" you did. And if we give too much credit for coming up with a supposedly original story, we (a) discredit much of the musical theatre canon and (b) suppress an evaluation of the quality of the original story, viz. If/Then or The Last Ship, with both of which I think it is fair to say most people had book issues.


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re: Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: lowwriter 12:30 pm EST 01/16/15
In reply to: re: Still, ask Marsha Norman. - ryhog 09:49 am EST 01/16/15

Well, Norman may be working as hard as possible on her books for musicals, they aren't very good.


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re: Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: JohnPopa 12:57 pm EST 01/16/15
In reply to: re: Still, ask Marsha Norman. - lowwriter 12:30 pm EST 01/16/15

Which is the difficulty in judging or trying to guess intent vs. quality. I try to never say someone didn't work hard, I just say I didn't like the result!


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re: Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: ryhog 02:20 pm EST 01/16/15
In reply to: re: Still, ask Marsha Norman. - JohnPopa 12:57 pm EST 01/16/15

I think there are shows where the laziness is easily discernible.

I think there are shows in which prodigious effort is displayed and the result still comes up short.

People sometimes post great praise here for hard workers. But at the level we are usually talking about here, hard work is not enough; it is about talent for which hard work is not a substitute. You cannot make yourself funny by hard work, you cannot write a song people want to hear by hard work, etc. That doesn't mean you don't have to work hard because you have talent, but it does mean that (as you say) there is a disconnect between intent and quality.


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re: Still, ask Marsha Norman.

Posted by: JohnPopa 08:58 am EST 01/16/15
In reply to: re: Still, ask Marsha Norman. - Ann 08:49 am EST 01/16/15

Adapting a screenplay is very different from adapting a book. Not that adpating a screenplay is easy per se, but you are starting with an existing dialogue structure, which helps a lot.


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