| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 08:03 pm EST 01/18/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - perfectlyfrank 07:28 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| I have to admit, perfectlyfrank, that I agree. It is weird that the production would be okay telling a story about a girl being raised to be a prostitute, but then pulling back from a song about a man expressing enjoyment at seeing a girls mature sexually. They are part of the same ethos. If you do not want to deal with the implications of the song, you cannot really tell this story. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 04:33 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - whereismikeyfl 08:03 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| >> a story about a girl being raised to be a prostitute this is what i meant when i said most 21st-century americans weren't going to grasp an 18th-century french sensibility. collette's lovely story just wont work here. either you bastardize it by turning it into something about men which the film did or you run up against "logic" like this. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 12:12 am EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - enoch10 04:33 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| Gigi is set at the turn of the 20th century, which, when you think of it, is exactly right. Mamita, Aunt Alicia and Honoré are firmly in a 19th century sensibility, Gigi represents the greater frankness of the 20th, and Gaston is firmly in between. The irony of Gigi and a major source of the wit in the Colette story is that it is in fact about a child who is being groomed for a career in prostitution, an institution that the 20th century found disgusting and revolting, but it presents the subject as it was viewed through a 19th century lens, i.e., as something as meticulously bound up in rules and conventions as marriage. Either a version of Gigi shares this ironic sensibility or else it's not really quite Gigi. This is particularly true of Gigi's perceived age at the beginning of the work; if she is not plausibly a child, then there is as little story there as a Pygmalion in which Eliza has exquisite manners from her first appearance outside Covent Garden. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:50 pm EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - LegitOnce 12:12 am EST 01/20/15 |
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| yes, i should have said 19th century. once again. some americans may not be able to distinguish between a courtesan and a prostitute any more than they can between a geisha and a prostitute but they are not the same thing either in france for the courtesan in the case of gigi or for the geisha. but "gigi" wasn't written by, for, about, or to americans. it was written by a french woman on a subject whose distinctions she and her readers understood completely. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 12:54 am EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - LegitOnce 12:12 am EST 01/20/15 |
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| "Gigi is set at the turn of the 20th century, which, when you think of it, is exactly right. Mamita, Aunt Alicia and Honoré are firmly in a 19th century sensibility, Gigi represents the greater frankness of the 20th, and Gaston is firmly in between." Very astute. Thank you. But I would point out that when someone today hears or reads the word "prostitute," what comes to mind is something quite a bit different than the French tradition of the courtesan. Those women were kept my rich men, but I believe they were with only one man at a time. One could argue that, even today, some women (and some men!) who marry, divorce, and remarry multiple times are doing the same thing. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:54 pm EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - Michael_Portantiere 12:54 am EST 01/20/15 |
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| i don't think "frankness" has anything to do with it. is she franker that her elders? sure, but what matters is what she wants and what she chooses to negotiate for. those women were every bit as able - arguably better if you limit your discussion to the characters in the story, to negotiate as gigi is. gigi just negotiates for more. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 09:14 pm EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - enoch10 03:54 pm EST 01/20/15 |
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| By "frank" I mean that she tells the whole truth without being coy or evasive or "polite." For her to say "And when it’s over and done with, Gaston Lachaille goes off with another lady and I have only to go into another gentleman’s bed” sounds shocking but in fact it is nothing but the plain truth, unfiltered through any sense of romanticism or glamour about the courtesan's life. And I disagree that Gigi "negotiates," at least in the conscious sense. She says frankly how she feels and what she thinks will be her reaction to becoming a courtesan, but then adds that even though she finds the prospect revolting, she will undergo it because she loves Gaston. That's it, period: no manipulation, just honesty and openness. And the magical thing that happens is that this honestly opens the heart of Gaston: he sees her generosity and he is inspired to rise to her level of integrity. All the conniving and bargaining and contracts mean nothing in the end; what matters is that Gigi stays true to herself, and by example reforms Gaston. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 03:10 pm EST 01/21/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - LegitOnce 09:14 pm EST 01/20/15 |
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| "And the magical thing that happens is that this honestly opens the heart of Gaston: he sees her generosity and he is inspired to rise to her level of integrity. All the conniving and bargaining and contracts mean nothing in the end; what matters is that Gigi stays true to herself, and by example reforms Gaston." That's a wonderful interpretation. Mine is slightly different, but not really contradictory: I think Gaston pretty much loves Gigi from the beginning of the story, but he doesn't consciously think of her in a romantic way, partly because of her age. Then, when he realizes he wants her romantically, he immediately goes to the idea that she will be his "kept woman," because this is the arrangement Gaston is most familiar with, and also because Gigi herself is in training to be a courtesan. So it takes Gigi stating the facts so frankly to realize that marrying her is what he wants to do. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 08:18 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - enoch10 04:33 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| Let us not forget that Colette's novel is not from the 18th century--it was written in the 1940s! But she has a detached ironic tone, which is something very hard to bring to the stage. Adding songs, which puts the focus on the character's emotions, you have something that is nowhere near Colette's sensibility or our own. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:57 pm EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - whereismikeyfl 08:18 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| it isn't a novel it's a novella. it's sensibility is 19th century not it's publishing date. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 11:24 pm EST 01/18/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - whereismikeyfl 08:03 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| "It is weird that the production would be okay telling a story about a girl being raised to be a prostitute, but then pulling back from a song about a man expressing enjoyment at seeing a girls mature sexually." Excellent point!!! Although I suppose their thought process is that the sexual details of the career that's planned for Gigi are never discussed openly -- except in one line, delivered by her, that completely shocks Gaston. (I'm going by what happens in the movie.) Also, I assume the audience is expected to view Honore as a very likeable character, and to have him be the one who sings "Thank Heaven for Little Girls" is viewed as destroying that possibility for a modern American audience. But...your excellent point still stands. | |
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| re: Gigi: accents? | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 08:07 pm EST 01/18/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Gigi: accents? - whereismikeyfl 08:03 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| And I know that some will say I mischaracterise the song, but the lyrics describe how the girls you now see as children will one day be sexually attractive. I do not think it is pedophilic as some have said, but definitely comments on the process of sexual maturation. | |
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