| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | perfectlyfrank 10:48 pm EST 01/18/15 |
| In reply to: | You read that from me - dramedy 08:00 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| I don't see any pedophelia in the song. At all. That's modern politically correct crap. People read so much into stuff. As sung by Chevalier its a charming song by a man who's seen it all and is narrating the story of one young girl who grows up just as his nephew too grows up. It's an older man narrating how young girls grow up into young women just as little boys grow up to be men who then find those women attractive. It's less sexual and more the musings of a spry old man who remembers fondly his own youth. You use the song as intended: with Honore singing the song. If audiences see pedophelia then they should examine their own perverted minds. I guess those same people look at grandfathers who love their grandchildren and think pedophelia too. I just watched the film again and Chevalier is utterly charming in the film and in that number. It perfectly sets up the story of a young girl who grows up before our eyes. There isn't anything more happening. If the censors of the 1950s didn't have a problem with it, it's funny how modern audiences would have a problem. again, I think it's lack of trust in the material and that never bodes well with a revival. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayTonyJ 09:18 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - perfectlyfrank 10:48 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| There's no pedoplilia suggested in the song, but I believe that the way Chevalier sings it, it is a paean to the way of life he advocates and is rich enough to enjoy. In the dialogue between the verses, Honore says that Paris is made up of 2 kinds of women, the married and unmarried. When he says unmarried, we see 2 women in a carriage who are obviously high-class prostitutes. Honore then singles out Gigi, who he knows is the grand niece of Alicia, a well known retired courtesan. He then continues with the song. This is all done with style and wit -- it's not offensive in the least, but I don't consider it innocent. Honore is charming, but he is also a rake -- he looks at an adolescent Gigi, and knows that she may (or may not) grow up to be his nephew's (or some other rich man's) mistress. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 04:51 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - perfectlyfrank 10:48 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| i don't see any in it either but i don't have a problem with them switching who gets the song if in fact they've shifted the focus back onto the women in the family. mores and opinions change. there'a a lot more discussions about sex, and pedophilia now that there was when the film came out. it's reductive to call that kind of awareness "politically correct cap." i can't imagine directing a production of GIGI and not coming to a pause when i got to "thank heaven..." at this moment in time there's no way not to think - some folks are going to find this creepy, now how am i gonna deal with that? the problem with tinkering (or not tinkering for that matter) is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. the director has to think, do i engage with this song in some way (and risk criticism) or do i leave it as is (and risk criticism?) you do what feels right and brace for the blows. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | Circlevet 12:51 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - perfectlyfrank 10:48 pm EST 01/18/15 |
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| And Honeymoon in Vegas is the story of a guy who loses his finance in card game to a gangster that she has to go to Hawaii with for the weekend. At least Gigi said "no, I won't be a prostitute". Where is the logic in any of this. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 04:56 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - Circlevet 12:51 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| >> At least Gigi said "no, I won't be a prostitute". no. she does not ever say anything remotely like this because this was never an option. no one is proposing that gigi become a prostitute. the french had prostitutes and the french had courtesans and they were not the same thing. i'm curious. do you think madame armfeldt was a prostitiute? | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 10:44 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - enoch10 04:56 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| You might want to consult a few dictionaries, because a courtesan is indeed a prostitute, though usually with a more upscale clientele. And of course Madame Armfeldt was a prostitute. The song Liasons is about the lowering standards in craft, respect, and price in her profession. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:42 pm EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - whereismikeyfl 10:44 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| i'd return the suggestion to read some books but make sure they aren't all dictionaries. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | BroadwayTonyJ 09:00 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - enoch10 04:56 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| Gigi says, "I don't want to." When pressed by Gaston, she proclaims that he wants her to sleep in his bed and that when he tires of her, she will have to find another rich gentleman, whose bed she will have to sleep in. She doesn't want to. This is Paris in the early 1900's -- there is no monarchy -- France is a republic, and a courtesan is a prostitute for rich gentlemen. I love the film -- it's one of the very great musicals with a superb score. The subject matter is handled delicately with remarkable taste and wit, but I think we all know what it is about. I love the fact that Gigi even in the early scenes knows full well what Aunt Alicia is training her for. There is a scene in which she tries to get her grandmother to admit she is being trained to be a courtesan but Maimita seems oblivious to Gigi's awareness of the situation. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | Circlevet 07:13 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - enoch10 04:56 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| Whatever the service Gigi is being trained to do was not central to my post that's a semantics argument. Colette wrote a wonderful story about a young girl who when faced with the prospect of a life as a courtesan (a hooker who can choose a good cigar) makes a different choice and changes her own fate which in my mind is an incredibly empowering statement especially when you consider the time in which she lived (why we need to fix this story I don't understand). Betsy on the other hand in Ben Brantley's new favorite show accepts the conditions of the ridiculous plot of Honeymoon in Vegas and with her Vassar education heads off to Hawaii with a gangster for the weekend cause her idiot fiancé lost her in a card game. You've come a long way baby! And Madame Armfeldt was a tramp who traded oral sex for figs, ask anyone. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 03:39 pm EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - Circlevet 07:13 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| not understanding the difference between a courtesan and a prostitute is more than a semantic argument. it is a case of not knowing what you're talking about. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | Circlevet 07:59 pm EST 01/20/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - enoch10 03:39 pm EST 01/20/15 |
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| Websters dictionary: Courtesan "noun" a prostitute, especially one with wealthy or upper-class clients. I guess I know what I'm talking about after all. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 11:40 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - Circlevet 07:13 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| I didn't much like Honeymoon in Vegas, but that was not my understanding of exactly what happened. Jack lost a lot of money in a poker game. He was told that the debt (for the nonpayment of which he might otherwise be seriously hurt) would be forgiven if Betsy would agree to spend the weekend with Tommy. Betsy does not have to say yes. Yes, she would probably feel awful if she didn't and Tommy followed through on his threat to Jack, but she does not have to. Jack did not put her up as a bet in a card game. If I hadn't seen the show, I would think that from your description. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 06:42 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - enoch10 04:56 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| Ask Lord Beaverbrook. | |
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| re: You read that from me | |
| Posted by: | Ann 02:34 pm EST 01/19/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You read that from me - Circlevet 12:51 pm EST 01/19/15 |
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| The difference is, his fiancee is an adult. People react a certain way when children are involved (and that has only increased in the years since the Gigi film, in my opinion). | |
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