| Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| - In today’s New York Post, Michael Riedel writes that drama critics are complaining about “stacked” April Broadway openings. Says Marilyn Stasio of Variety: “I think it’s having a terrible effect on the theater, No show is getting its due. They’re cannibalizing one another. I want the producers to know they’re getting gypped.” Click here to read Michael Riedel’s “Broadway Matinee” column. - | |
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| I'm actually grateful for the glut. | |
| Posted by: | ashleylm 12:10 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| All these openings work for me. As a non-New Yorker I can arrive in town for a week or two and see much of everything. If it were spread out there would be just as many casualities, and I'd have no chance to take them in and make up my own mind. As it is, Honeymoon in Vegas' early opening caused it to disappear before my arrival. (For me personally, ideally half the shows would opening November 1st, and half May 1st, because I try to come twice a year, but that may be asking for too much change just to suit my schedule ;-) | |
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| I actually feel the same way .... | |
| Posted by: | jdm 05:18 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| months can go by when there is nothing I want to see (or nothing at all to see) and then BOOM there is 16 shows in two months! :-) Jim | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 11:03 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| It seems to me that the real issue is that most media outlets today have one person assigned to cover all Broadway openings, the Times being a notable exception. This is not a champagne problem: that sentiment is based on the false notion that being a Broadway theatre critic is not "work." I also think, however, that Stasio's premise re the effect on shows is overblown: the good shows and the bad shows still end up in the same order such that there is no compelling reason for producers to schedule differently. Finally, as I often do, I look to baseball for a comparison. Journalists covering baseball are sometimes very overworked: an extra inning game can last until 1 in the morning or later, followed by a day game at 1pm or even a flight to another city. | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | writerkev 01:03 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - ryhog 11:03 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| And as the preponderance of Tony nominations so often go to April shows (chicken or egg is a possible question), there's no way producers will be convinced coming in late in the season isn't good practice. | |
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| For musicals | |
| Posted by: | dramedy 02:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - writerkev 01:03 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| All nominated for best category opened in the spring. Best play has curious incident from last fall. And revival play have several from from. It will be interesting if skylight wins over elephant man and whether being open helps--but that we would never know. I'm actually surprised there has been no mention by elephant man producers of bringing the show back to Broadway after London, which I thought they stated when it closed. | |
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| re: For musicals | |
| Posted by: | mikem 05:20 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | For musicals - dramedy 02:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Three new musicals opened before April 12, and they received a total of two nominations between them (Score and Orchestrations for The Last Ship, nothing for Honeymoon in Vegas or Holler If Ya Hear Me). I don't think it's likely that producers are going to start opening shows earlier if that trend continues. Interestingly, of the 10 new musicals this season, half of them didn't get any nominations at all. (Add Finding Neverland, Dr Zhivago, and It Shoulda Been You to the above list.) At least in recent years, it's rare for half of the musicals to be completely shut out, although this year had a fairly large number of critically drubbed musicals. | |
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| It does feel though... | |
| Posted by: | charles1055 10:40 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| That with the rapid fire succession of openings this spring no show has really "caught" on in a way because the attention so quickly shifts to the show opening the next day. Maybe that's a function of the less than exciting offerings but it feels like no show has been able to dominate attention because a new one opens 24 hours after it. | |
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| re: It does feel though... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 01:34 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | It does feel though... - charles1055 10:40 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| "With the rapid fire succession of openings this spring no show has really "caught' on in a way because the attention so quickly shifts to the show opening the next day." Thank you for articulating what I think is the main issue here. It's not about how overworked the critics are, it's about the split focus among potential audiences that occurs when three of four shows open each week over a period of three or four weeks. Yes, of course, the hits can still become hits under these circumstances, and the flops probably would have been flops anyway. But I still think, in an ideal situation, it would be much better if audiences had more of a chance to process the reviews and publicity attending each opening before moving on to the next one the following night, and the next one two nights later, and so on. | |
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| Poor, poor Marilyn Stasio... | |
| Posted by: | StageLover 09:42 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| My heart BLEEDS for her... | |
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| I'm kind of with her on this | |
| Posted by: | MockingbirdGirl 10:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Poor, poor Marilyn Stasio... - StageLover 09:42 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I think Broadway producers spend far too much time obsessing about the Tonys. In London, no one would dream of scheduling openings to coincide with the Olivier Award nominations; the result is that you get new shows opening all year round. Of course, the Olivier's are also very much more about rewarding excellence rather than simply marketing... which, IMHO, is another point in their favor! | |
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| re: I'm kind of with her on this | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 11:08 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | I'm kind of with her on this - MockingbirdGirl 10:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| You seem to realize the defect in your opening sentence in your last sentence. When you are trying to make money, it is only natural to obsess about the vehicle that will enriches you. The Olivier is not really comparable to the Tony because it is not as valuable a brand. (Not at all saying that is a bad thing.) | |
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| re: I'm kind of with her on this | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 11:12 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: I'm kind of with her on this - ryhog 11:08 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Ironically, while less of a brand, the Oliviers are more branded. | |
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| re: I'm kind of with her on this | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 11:35 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: I'm kind of with her on this - Singapore/Fling 11:12 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I'm not sure what that means. Maybe I am just being dense about something that's clever. | |
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| re: I'm kind of with her on this | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 11:53 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: I'm kind of with her on this - ryhog 11:35 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I assume Singapore/Fling is talking about the awards that have corporate sponsors: The Dow Scrubbing Bubbles Best Musical, or some such nonsense. | |
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| re: I'm kind of with her on this | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 12:58 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: I'm kind of with her on this - MikeR 11:53 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The Clean House could have won the Dow Scrubbing Bubbles Best Play, I suppose... | |
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| And apologies for errant apostrophe in the previous post (nm) | |
| Posted by: | MockingbirdGirl 10:46 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | I'm kind of with her on this - MockingbirdGirl 10:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| MBG, grammar nerd. | |
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| Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | NeoAdamite 10:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Poor, poor Marilyn Stasio... - StageLover 09:42 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Stasio is being a responsible journalist who takes her job seriously; she is complaining that she is not able to do each show justice when so many come all at once. Writing on deadline is hard. | |
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| It's all about the Tonys! | |
| Posted by: | sandcastle 03:57 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Missing the point - NeoAdamite 10:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Well, maybe one or two of them. Calling the beach in a few minutes...... | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | AC126748 10:21 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Missing the point - NeoAdamite 10:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The life of a working journalist is about working on deadline. Yes, it's hard. There are many essential practices in many professions that are hard, but it's part of the job. As a working journalist, there are times when my beat explodes--major events to cover, travel, lots of things happening at once--but you work through it, because that's the job. | |
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| And have you never complained...? nm | |
| Posted by: | frankm 11:44 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - AC126748 10:21 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| nm | |
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| It's part of the job. | |
| Posted by: | AC126748 01:05 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | And have you never complained...? nm - frankm 11:44 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Accountants are incredibly busy in the weeks and months leading up to tax day. I'm sure they don't love putting in long hours, but they knew it was part of the job when they signed up. For as long as I can remember, March and April have featured a glut of Broadway openings in the lead-up to Tony season. If you're a reviewer who covers Broadway, it's your busiest time of the year, and the busy season means extra work. | |
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| And yet they complain! | |
| Posted by: | frankm 02:23 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | It's part of the job. - AC126748 01:05 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I know two CPAs. They knew going in that March and April, "Tax Season," would always be killer-busy for them. They knew it was part of the job, as you say. And yet...and yet...talk to them in March and April and they will complain and complain and complain. So I still don't see what your point is. People complain. Let them! | |
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| But no one in this forum EVER complains! | |
| Posted by: | MockingbirdGirl 03:12 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | And yet they complain! - frankm 02:23 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| ;-) | |
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| Never, ever!!! nm | |
| Posted by: | frankm 03:30 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | But no one in this forum EVER complains! - MockingbirdGirl 03:12 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| nm | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 10:30 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - AC126748 10:21 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Fair enough. But do we want our critics viewing our shows through the prism of being in a war zone? Considering how much value their experience carries, we might do well to consider their frustration. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | AC126748 10:36 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - Singapore/Fling 10:30 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| That's a bit of a leap. I would never compare having to review five plays inside of a week to being embedded (and no journalist or critic should). But there are times when it's necessary to turn around a high volume of writing in a very short window, and this is something that every seasoned journalist should be comfortable doing. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 11:05 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - AC126748 10:36 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Sure. At the same time, they aren't necessarily journalists in the traditional sense. And while they are able to do their jobs as requested, it may not be to the benefit of these shows to crowd their plate. I go to a lot of plays and readings for my job. It gets exhausting in the high volume weeks. I try to not let it affect my reading of each play, but it can. The more level headed of the critics are simply stating that the economic consideration might adversely affect the response that critics give. Again, their words carry weight, and we might wish to heed their cautions. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | AC126748 11:18 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - Singapore/Fling 11:05 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Everybody benefits from having extra time and a less hectic schedule. However, it's a luxury that is not always available. Whether or not you consider reviewers traditional journalists--I do--they have to function on the deadline system like the rest of us. Obviously when someone's assignment is to write a 3,000 word critical essay, they're given more time than a reviewer who has to see a show Tuesday, write his copy Wednesday, and turn it in for editing so that it can be published Thursday. But sometimes that's the job. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 11:27 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - AC126748 11:18 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I don't disagree with you. I do, though, see the possibility that we would get *better work* from these critics if their crunch period wasn't so intense. They can do their jobs; are we making those jobs needlessly complicated? It's a question that is worth considering, in light of the money that is on the line. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | EvFoDr 10:11 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Missing the point - NeoAdamite 10:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| That's mostly what I took from the article as well, although it seems some may just be complaining. I'm not a critic but before I moved to NYC I used to make marathon trips to see shows and often had the feeling that they all started to run together and by the end of the week I didn't always savor them the way I would like. I can see how this glut of essentially forced theatre-going AND critical analysis could be a hindrance to the critical process. Now I see theatre much more spaced out and it IS different. Because sometimes I end up seeing several shows in a week and that old feeling creeps in. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | lowwriter 11:35 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - EvFoDr 10:11 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I've doing a lot of marathon theater weekends this spring--I just got back from a five show trip in Chicago--and though I usually enjoy what I'm seeing, I don't have enough time to have the shows sink in and think about what I just saw. It's so tempting to experience all that's out there but maybe not the best way to experience shows individually. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 02:26 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - lowwriter 11:35 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| i think it depends on the person. i couldn't do marathon 6 shows in 5 day type things ether and expect to remember enough to make it worth my while but i have a friend who comes to town once or twice a year and does it and can recall deals from productions i hadn't thought of until reminded about them. as for this piece it comes off to me as typical reidel - take an idea and make up some quotes for a story on a week when you really don't have one. i know plenty of bloggers/journalists (real and quasi) covering theater for free who handle the pre-tony glut with neither complaints nor concern so i suspect the folks for whom this actually their job can manage at least just as easily. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | Ann 10:22 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - EvFoDr 10:11 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| And imagine if you had to write reviews of then all! | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | EvFoDr 10:39 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - Ann 10:22 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I know! I get worn out just reading them all. Seriously! | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | lowwriter 10:07 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Missing the point - NeoAdamite 10:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I do agree with Stasio about the shows hurting each other by opening at the same time. All these musicals opening one after another did no show any good. | |
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| Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | FinalPerformance 10:24 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Missing the point - lowwriter 10:07 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Like ten pounds of chocolate eaten in one hour. Yuck. | |
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| re: Missing the point | |
| Posted by: | twocents 10:49 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Missing the point - FinalPerformance 10:24 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| You can do it, Final! Hell, your London jaunt is legendary. | |
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| But it's great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | jimvar1 09:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| who can then squeeze all the new and/or finish-line shows in a week or 2. Why change a good thing, dumb critix??? | |
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| re: But it's great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | ashleylm 12:11 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | But it's great for out-of-towners... - jimvar1 09:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Made the same point above, sorry didn't see it had already been covered. | |
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| re: But it's great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 01:49 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | But it's great for out-of-towners... - jimvar1 09:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| "But it's great for out-of-towners...who can then squeeze all the new and/or finish-line shows in a week or 2. Why change a good thing, dumb critix???" Weird argument. | |
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| re: But it's great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | Thom915 (Thom915@aol.com) 10:46 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | But it's great for out-of-towners... - jimvar1 09:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| What difference does it make to the out-of-towners if the show they are seeing opened this month or two months ago? It is a new show to them. I agree with Stasio that it is unfair to most to have all these shows open in the same month as though NY theater was about a Tony Award Festival rather than a Broadway season. | |
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| It's only great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | MockingbirdGirl 10:43 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | But it's great for out-of-towners... - jimvar1 09:04 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| ... who arrive at the right time of year. Less good for those who arrive in the fall, or February. | |
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| re: It's only great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | MikeR 11:55 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | It's only great for out-of-towners... - MockingbirdGirl 10:43 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Yeah, my last trip was in late March. I missed the start of previews of The Visit, Something Rotten, An American in Paris, and Fun Home by days. But that's when my schedule would allow me to go, so that's when I went. | |
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| re: It's only great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 12:08 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: It's only great for out-of-towners... - MikeR 11:55 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| An interesting fantasy experiment would be to move the Tony cutoff date to the end of February. | |
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| re: It's only great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | ADFeldman 01:03 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: It's only great for out-of-towners... - ryhog 12:08 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The Tonys did used to be earlier, actually. In 1971, the telecast was on March 28! But the season wasn't as strongly tied to the Tonys back then. (They moved to June in 1977.) | |
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| re: It's only great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 03:35 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: It's only great for out-of-towners... - ADFeldman 01:03 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| They were indeed earlier and, even more shocking to anyone who only thinks in the present, they weren't on national TV until 1967 (and even then only for an hour of recap), coinciding with the involvement of the League in the awards. | |
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| re: It's only great for out-of-towners... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 01:05 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: It's only great for out-of-towners... - ryhog 03:35 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| There were years, yes, when the cutoff was the end of February. And in 1967, it was Feb. 18. But the 1967 awards were not just an hour of recaps. There were performances from each of the four nominated musicals, and the awards were all given out on the air. It ran eight minutes overtime. A lot fewer awards back then. And that first year moved fast. | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 08:31 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - jesse21 07:45 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| “I don’t think we should get involved in this,” says The Post’s Elisabeth Vincentelli, the group’s vice president. “I think it is uncouth of us to complain about seeing too much theater.” In a nutshell. | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | AC126748 08:37 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - Delvino 08:31 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Seriously. Talk about champagne problems. | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | twocents 10:51 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - AC126748 08:37 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Break out the violins. They wanted to write and cover. Write and cover. There's always someone who will do it for a lesser salary! | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 02:13 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - twocents 10:51 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I guess I shouldn't be surprised at people writing reactionary responses and failing to understand the larger point here, but -- I am. | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | MockingbirdGirl 11:50 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - twocents 10:51 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| There's always someone who will do it for a lesser salary! And with a lesser degree of expertise. | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | perfectlyfrank 11:35 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - MockingbirdGirl 11:50 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Or with more passion and interest in the position. | |
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| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 02:39 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - perfectlyfrank 11:35 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| >>Or with more passion and interest in the position. but more often with a lesser degree is expertise. passion and interest aren't the criteria for a good critic; knowledge and discernment are. passion and interest are fine for folks playing pretend critic on message boards - or even for folks just expressing options and sharing reactions - but critic is a real job that serves a real function. journalists passing (or more often being mis-read) as critics muddied the water but the idea that the internet has turned everyone into a critic is inaccurate. i can buy a white coat and wear a stethoscope but it wouldn't make me a doctor. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 11:14 am EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Michael Riedel Today: Critics tired of Broadway shows opening right before Tony cutoff - twocents 10:51 am EDT 05/06/15 |
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| And this is how we get to a Race to the Bottom society and culture. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
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