| John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| "The theatergoing pubaalic nowadays bestows thundering, yowling, standing ovations on almost anything, with the mediocre book and lyrics by Lisa Kron and less than mediocre music by Jeanine Tesori a prime example thereof." | |
| Link | John Simon |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | TGWW 07:31 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I'm confused. Could someone please inform me what the difference between Simon's review of "Fun Home" and Nothinglikeashow80's proud evisceration of "Finding Neverland" posted below with post after post of huzzahs? | |
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| Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL | |
| Posted by: | Draeigon 04:19 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - TGWW 07:31 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I don't know... not a big John Simon fan but I do feel in line with his review of Fun Home. From two sources, I have heard that Fun Home and The Visit were the two clear nominees after the first round of TONY nominee voting and that Something Rotten is lucky to be in the race. I do not know but...that is the word from 2 sources. I have already posted about this so forgive me but I love the underdog story. Why will/can THE VISIT win? For me, this has not been a terribly exciting year for musicals and this is the one occasion that everyone can throw their hands in the air and vote for the most ambitious and compelling work of art. This is a year when voters can honor a disappearing musical landscape on Broadway. I am surprised at the amount of true admiration and support that I am hearing for the show. There is a definite sense that the industy is rallying around it. I think that every so often people are going to support artistic integrity over commerce. This is the year voters,at least many that I am talking to, are planning on doing just that. FUN HOME does not seem to be connecting with voters and American in Paris is putting every voter I know to sleep. Personaly, I thought the dancing was great, the book and performances generic. Fun Home, was very moving but formulaic with a limited universal perspective. S. ROTTEN was just a silly, underdeveloped grab bag filled with the same joke. Funny to a point but utterly negligible. I know...everyone (outsiders?) is saying that there is no chance for THE VISIT To take the big one. Maybe that is the truth. However, that is seriously, not what I am hearing. I will not be surprised if this is the year that the voters honor something that truly does not fit the Broadway ideal. WHY? Because people in this industy want to believe in their artistry and intellect. With a bevy of mediocre choices this is the year they can vote for "art". THE VISIT seems to be one of those shows that people passionately love or dismiss. Maybe I am a chump for getting caught up in the TONY game but I would so love to see this industry give it's top award to the show that reflects ideals of art rather than pandering to the possible lining of their pocketbooks. Ok, I am going g o. Too long and it is late. I love the show but I love my zzzzzzz's better. Nite. | |
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| re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 09:43 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL - Draeigon 04:19 am EDT 05/07/15 |
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| "Fun Home, was very moving but formulaic with a limited universal perspective." There are many possible criticisms of Fun Home, I am sure, but formulaic does not seem to me one of them. What do you perceive as being formulaic about it? As ryhog said, there is only one round of Tony voting. Here is the rule on this matter: "Where there are nine or more eligible shows in a Best Show category, at the Tony Nominating Meeting, the Nominating Committee will be instructed to cast one vote each for four eligible shows as nominees on his/her secret ballot. Such ballot shall be collected and tabulated by a representative of the Accounting Firm. The four eligible shows with the highest number of votes will automatically be designated as the nominees in such category. A fifth nominee shall be added to the category in the event that the Accounting Firm determines that the difference in votes between the fourth highest ranked show and the fifth highest ranked show is three votes or less." Tony rules and regulations are linked below. | |
| Link | Tony Rules and Regulations |
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| re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL | |
| Posted by: | Draeigon 07:05 pm EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL - AlanScott 09:43 am EDT 05/07/15 |
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| Sorry, maybe I was wrong referencing voting rounds...may have heard it wrong. Point being the two top vote getters were apparently F.HOME and VISIT.Though,I can not validate the people that said it nor do I know how they knew. Perhaps, best to have Said nothing. At any rate, and this is just personal taste here, the use of the narrator seems a fairly eas way into a story. It is is a structural device that has been done to death. That is what stuck me as somewhat formulaic about Kron's book. However, as I believe I said, Fun Home was a fine, compelling show in my opinion, reservations aside I hate to say it, in response to the post after yours, as much as I am revolted by john Simons hate based references, I do think he understands structure and exhibits a fair amount of intellegence. There was another critic who I believe has passed away. His name was Martin Gottfried. Smart critic, Hideous human being.... at least to the degree he revealed himself in his notices. Don't get it. They are New York Theater critics. Guess hate can live anywhere | |
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| re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 11:24 pm EDT 05/08/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL - Draeigon 07:05 pm EDT 05/07/15 |
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| My take on Simon: He has a lot of knowledge, but little insight. My take on Gottfried: He had some knowledge, but he understood very little indeed about anything. Perhaps he was an early champion of Sondheim, at one time I thought he had smart taste. The more I read of his work, the less I thought of him. Unlike Walter Kerr (always an easy name to cite), with whom I often disagreed, but who I thought was both smart and knowledgeable. | |
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| Walter Kerr | |
| Posted by: | Draeigon 11:40 pm EDT 05/08/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL - AlanScott 11:24 pm EDT 05/08/15 |
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| An Kerr I thought was just a damn dood writer. Frequently disagreed with him as well but very articulate and often blisteringlyfunny. He was great at substantiating his position. I wrote a college paper on the demise of the Boulevard Comedy in relation to TV and read all of his play reviews in the 60's. If you can find it, read his opening paragraphs on a completely forgotten little thing called ONCE FOR THE ASKING. It is hilarious and creates such a vivid impression of what that evening in the theater must have been like. | |
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| re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 06:04 pm EDT 05/08/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL - Draeigon 07:05 pm EDT 05/07/15 |
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| you find FUN HOME formulaic because it has a narrator? | |
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| re: Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 08:54 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | Agree with his review: and THE VISIT wins BEST MUSICAL - Draeigon 04:19 am EDT 05/07/15 |
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| 1. Your 2 "sources" have as much chance of being right as the thousands of other "sources" for each of the nominees winning. Truth is, this is a category in which there is a plausible scenario for each show winning. 2. There is only one round of voting for the Tony. 3. Your art vs commerce discussion is made with blinders on. Whether you hated it or not, Fun Home undoubtedly falls in the "art" category. In general, I don't think this is a good year to make the distinction between art and commerce. 4. The Visit's biggest issue is staying open until the Tonys; notwithstanding your affection for it, which I certainly respect (although I'd prefer if you found someone other than a bigot to align yourself with), the show is bleeding big time money. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott (AlanScottG@aol.com) 08:07 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - TGWW 07:31 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I haven't read Simon's review. I'm not going to click on it and give it more hits. But I'm guessing that one reason is that nothinglikeashow80 makes some valid points about Finding Neverland's shortcomings, whereas Simon's displeasure with Fun Home is considered to be coming from a place of homophobia and his criticisms are largely invalid. And that's not to say that there can't be valid criticisms of the show. I loved it, but I could criticize some elements of it, as I could about almost any musical that's ever been written. Did you think that any of Simon's criticisms were valid? Perhaps I should read it, but I just can't bring myself to click on it. | |
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| Awwwww... | |
| Posted by: | jimvar1 03:03 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - AlanScott 08:07 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| click on it, Alan. C'mon, we won't tell!! ;-) | |
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| re: Awwwww... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 10:08 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | Awwwww... - jimvar1 03:03 am EDT 05/07/15 |
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| LOL. It's not that you'll tell. They'll know how many hits he gets. But I think I probably will click on it later today. | |
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| re: Awwwww... | |
| Posted by: | oddone 11:31 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Awwwww... - AlanScott 10:08 am EDT 05/07/15 |
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| No need to click- I just emailed you the review | |
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| re: Awwwww... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 11:50 am EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Awwwww... - oddone 11:31 am EDT 05/07/15 |
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| Thank you. (That's why I put my email address there. You were smart enough to figure it out. Very silly of me, I know.) | |
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| re: Awwwww... | |
| Posted by: | larry13 12:04 pm EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Awwwww... - AlanScott 11:50 am EDT 05/07/15 |
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| I cannot help but think this is the equivalent of having a Shabbos goy press the elevator button for you!(Absolutely no offense intended.) | |
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| re: Awwwww... | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 12:42 pm EDT 05/07/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Awwwww... - larry13 12:04 pm EDT 05/07/15 |
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| LOL. I never remember to ask goys to do that for me. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | Thom915 10:30 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - AlanScott 08:07 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| He didn't like the show and it is very obvious he has little use for the graphic novel form and feels the writing of the show does not improve upon it. (I liked the show but admit considering its subject matter and characters, more depth could have been added though it would have made the material less true to its source.) He liked the main performances particularly that of Michael Cerveris. He felt the other principals were not given enough to do. He found the scenery, costumes and lighting were good but added little to the show. He did not like the work of Alison Bechtel, Lisa Kron and particularly Jeanine Tesori but did not descend into personal attacks on them, something he has been known to do to performers and creative artists in the past. I disagree with him about nearly everything particularly his disdain for Changing My Major, my favorite song from the show. I also disagree with nothinglikeashow80's review of Finding Neverland and despite valid points and points of view in both found the latter to be a good deal more vitriolic and condescending. That however is only my opinion. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 11:41 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - Thom915 10:30 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| You kind of make me want to read it, even though it does sound like I would disagree with almost everything. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | garyd 09:40 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - AlanScott 08:07 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I read it. Bored on the airplane is my feeble excuse. No need to read it. It is a "nothing here to look at folks, move along" piece of writing. If he has some valid criticisms, they are nothing you have not realized without his venomous guidance. | |
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| To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | JayBee 03:59 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Good Lord, the man is entitled to HIS opinion. Count to ten and take a deep breath.I promise your Fun Home will still be here after you do. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 08:21 pm EDT 05/08/15 |
| In reply to: | To all the irate posters below - JayBee 03:59 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| and we're entitled to call him a homophobic asshat with the only correction - the only correction - being one for redundancy. we stopped counting to ten and taking a deep breath instead of calling homophobic asshats out for what they are long ago and it's paid off pretty spectacularly. when i feel the need to look for a cue as to what you think my my proper response to this kind of nonsense should be i'll let you know. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | portenopete 06:07 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | To all the irate posters below - JayBee 03:59 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Simon is in a class by himself, isn't he? No NYC critic that I know of has been so virulently nasty for such a long period of time. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | MockingbirdGirl 05:23 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | To all the irate posters below - JayBee 03:59 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Good Lord, the man is entitled to HIS opinion. And equally, members of this forum are entitled to THEIR opinions of his opinion. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 05:12 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | To all the irate posters below - JayBee 03:59 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The issue is not his opinion about the show but his bigotry as manifested in those opinions. I really don't think most people would want to be in the position of defending that. But who knows? | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | TheOtherOne 05:17 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: To all the irate posters below - ryhog 05:12 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| "The issue is not his opinion about the show but his bigotry as manifested in those opinions." Perhaps, but he is very clear as to why he does not care for Tesori and Kron's writing, and hence the show. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | AnObserver 08:34 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: To all the irate posters below - TheOtherOne 05:17 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Maybe he thinks Tesori and Kron are lesbians? Haha. Kidding. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 05:43 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: To all the irate posters below - TheOtherOne 05:17 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| He's also clear on his disdain for the source material, and while he never overtly says anything homophobic, the review drips with homophobia. It's just this side of hate speech. There's this strain of relativism that is plaguing our society these days, which states that each person is entitled (that word again) to their own uniquely valid opinion, and this point of view tends to disregard the beliefs being espoused in favor of the espousing of beliefs. It's nonsense. Hate speech is hate speech. And John Simon is getting about as close as he can to said speech without actually stating it directly. And I for one won't take that lying down. Laying down. Lying down. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | chrismpls 07:09 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: To all the irate posters below - Singapore/Fling 05:43 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| particularly when he equates being a lesbian with being "boyish." I guess we can assume no editor gets near his copy? | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 09:04 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: To all the irate posters below - chrismpls 07:09 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| editor? that's funny. he's writing for the equivalent of a pennysaver. their only editors read the classifieds. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 07:53 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: To all the irate posters below - chrismpls 07:09 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| boyish and more boyish! I couldn't really tell if he meant that Emily Skeggs was the better of the two at being a lesbian, or he disliked her more because she was such a lesbian. Or both. At least Adult Alison is too busy shouting out caption to actually engage in lesbian romance. Which he hates so much he had to quote half the song. | |
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| Is it generational? | |
| Posted by: | portenopete 06:12 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: To all the irate posters below - Singapore/Fling 05:43 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| As a gay man of 50, I find I am not nearly so quick to label bigotry as "hate speech". I have been reading John Simon for over thirty years and was aware of a distaste for most (if not all) things rainbow, but I never felt an impulse to silence him or demand his resignation. I think there are bigger fish to fry that make a difference across far greater canvasses than the New York theatre review-reading world. His is the opinion of an educated but egregiously dogmatic Eastern European who has refused to change his principles in the belief that it would diminish the whole point of having had them in the first place. He's of another era and the most effective action one could take would be to ignore him. | |
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| re: Is it generational? | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 09:15 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Is it generational? - portenopete 06:12 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| as a gay man of the same approximate era, I don't find the need to label bigotry as anything. I'm not prosecuting him for a crime; if we agree it's bigotry that really should be all we need to know. I do not support repressing his or anyone else's free speech; in fact, I come from the school where having a bigot speak is actually a good thing, because it allows the rest of us to address his heinous words. That said, I do have an issue with sanctioning those words, something that prevented me from buying NY Magazine for many years, that has caused me to criticize the drama critics for allowing his filthiness to taint them and that certainly keeps me from clicking the website of some penny ante newspaper that has, for whatever reasons, chosen to give bigotry a platform. | |
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| re: Is it generational? | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 06:32 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Is it generational? - portenopete 06:12 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The older I get, the more that I realize everything is generational, in every possible direction. In terms of Simon, I agree with you about ignoring him. And considering who he writes for, most people are ignoring him as well. But since it turned into a statement of opinions and their validity to be held, I felt inclined to say something. I will gladly ignore John Simon, but I will not stand by as his point of view is tolerated. (is that silly? possibly) | |
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| re: Is it generational? | |
| Posted by: | portenopete 07:21 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Is it generational? - Singapore/Fling 06:32 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| "is that silly?" I wouldn't characterize it like that. It's good to be passionate about things. I tend to err on the opposite side, but I wouldn't argue that my way is the right way. I tend to eschew conflict and disharmony because my constitution can't handle it :). But tell me: where exactly IS this review? I Googled john+simon+fun+home and couldn't see it. | |
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| re: Is it generational? | |
| Posted by: | Singapore/Fling 07:51 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Is it generational? - portenopete 07:21 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The original post contains the link. | |
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| re: To all the irate posters below | |
| Posted by: | sandcastle 04:01 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | To all the irate posters below - JayBee 03:59 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Gee, I don't know. It's John Simon, you know? | |
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| John Simon hates FUN HOME. | |
| Posted by: | sandcastle 03:53 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Well, that's just it! He should simply be assassinated. I've had quite enough, thank you very much. Really. How dare he? What a bitch. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | mlb 03:31 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Considering 30 years ago during his stint at NY Mag he wrote the comment about a gay playwright and his play: I wish all gay playwrights would get Aids, what do you expect. And the fact that NYM did not fire him still enrages me | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 03:27 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I let this year's drama critics awards pass without posting my usual comment that they should kick Simon out, not only because he is an embarrassment to them but also because he is not eligible, unless they want to add the chief drama critic of the Katonah Pennysaver. He has been the most loathsome critic in the United States for so long it is hardly worth mentioning. | |
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| Life is too short to read John Simon. Seriously. (nmi) | |
| Posted by: | NeoAdamite 02:11 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | tocop 01:47 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| shocking that anyone can be this ignorant. Fun Home is a stunning piece of musical theatre. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | KingSpeed 08:36 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - tocop 01:47 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Let's have fun. Name a show you don't like and then I'll call you ignorant. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | broadwaybacker 04:45 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - tocop 01:47 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Fun Home is very good. In my opinion, it is sheer hyperbole to call it a stunning piece of musical theater. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | portenopete 07:24 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - broadwaybacker 04:45 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Not to be a big John Simon supporter, but it's that kind of hyperbole that gets his goat, I suspect. I think over time we have all been trying to one-up each other (and even ourselves) in praising stuff we like, especially if it is not commercially appealing. I have to fight the tendency to overpraise shows like BOOK OF MORMON and SPRING AWAKENING and HAMILTON when I'm talking to others so as to not to saddle the shows with unrealistic expectations. "Very, very good." That says enough, no? | |
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| This, too, shall pass. | |
| Posted by: | portenopete 01:34 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I think for many people it's a fight not to fall into the "those were the days" mentality. I'm not 50 yet and I sometimes go there. But then I think about my thrill seeing SPRING AWAKENING, IN THE HEIGHTS, GREY GARDENS, NATASHA, PIERRE AND THE GREAT COMET OF 1812, HERE LIES LOVE, AVENUE Q, and most recently HAMILTON and I breathe a sigh of relief. Simon came out of the womb a p***k and to his credit, he hasn't softened with age. He used to make me laugh with his outrageously nasty comments (easy to do if you've never been on the receiving end, although I know a ton of actors who treasure their John Simon insults like they would an Al Hirschfeld caricature). He's clinging on to relevance in his 90s and a part of me admires his tenacity. And the stuff he likes is usually really good, it's just that there ain't a whole lot he likes. I'm kind of amazed that in 2015 we are still stinging from his barbs! His whole generation has gone now: Barnes, Canby, Kroll, Gill. | |
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| re: This, too, shall pass. | |
| Posted by: | enoch10 08:28 pm EDT 05/08/15 |
| In reply to: | This, too, shall pass. - portenopete 01:34 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| >> and to his credit, to his credit? he was a homophobe 35 years ago and he's a homophopbe now and you find this admirable? why? | |
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| re: This, too, shall pass. | |
| Posted by: | singleticket 01:44 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | This, too, shall pass. - portenopete 01:34 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| He made me laugh with the use of the word lesbianism which would sound even better in French, lesbianisme or German, lesbianismus. I enjoy his enjoyment at being a darling old crank but I wouldn't go out of my way to read him. | |
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| re: This, too, shall pass. | |
| Posted by: | portenopete 06:06 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: This, too, shall pass. - singleticket 01:44 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I wouldn't either. In fact, this thread was a revelation in that I didn't realize he had a gig of any kind. I was sitting at a table next to his at a restaurant in a theater festival town and he must have heard us talking about whatever it was we were seeing. He stopped and started engaging us in conversation and started dropping hints that he was someone we should know. He didn't come right out and say it, but he was being leading and I refused to bite. I felt kind of sorry for him, but then I reflected on the astonishingly mean things he'd said over the years and I felt less guilty :). | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | carolinaguy 01:06 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I only hope that someday God can forgive Lisa Kron for writing dialogue that reflects the way real people often speak. Perhaps one day soon someone will build a toilet big enough to flush Simon and fellow fossil Rex Reed like the giant turds they are. | |
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| re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" | |
| Posted by: | ryhog 03:39 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - carolinaguy 01:06 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| And after the flush is complete, I hope he gets assigned to the same room in hell in which Roy Cohn is currently in solitary confinement. In fact, there is the germ of a great play in that idea; I hope someone writes it. | |
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| and we care, because? | |
| Posted by: | AC126748 12:34 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The average Wordpress blogger has more credibility--and writes more coherent copy--than John Simon nowadays. Yet his insignificant screeds still get posted here with regularity. Just let the old coot rage in obscurity for whatever passes as the remains of his career. | |
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| One can agree with him about only one thing... | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 12:20 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | John Simon on FUN HOME and the "Demented Tonys" - bwayjoey 12:10 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| The ubiquitous substitution and misuse of "lay" for "lie" in our culture, pervasive and shameful. Otherwise, even about the effeminate Cerveris wig (huh?), he just didn't get it. | |
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| re: One can agree with him about only one thing... | |
| Posted by: | allineedisthegirl 02:21 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | One can agree with him about only one thing... - Delvino 12:20 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Of all the shameful things our culture is going to have to answer for, the ubiquitous substitution of lay for lie is WAY down on the list. db | |
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| Mea culpa. | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 03:00 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: One can agree with him about only one thing... - allineedisthegirl 02:21 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Good grief, it was a glib remark, the larger point intended: the only thing in Simon's review that had credibility. Trust me, with someone arguing in favor of the verb substitution as common usage, and a wrist slap for my perceived priorities, I would delete it if I could. | |
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| re: Mea culpa. | |
| Posted by: | kdogg36 04:37 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | Mea culpa. - Delvino 03:00 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I apologize for the overreaction. You can trust that I was truly upset only with John Simon, not with you. :) | |
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| And I reacted beyond the stakes in the event. | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 08:35 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Mea culpa. - kdogg36 04:37 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| Thank you. My bristling is all too obvious. We do get passionate here. | |
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| re: One can agree with him about only one thing... | |
| Posted by: | kdogg36 01:03 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | One can agree with him about only one thing... - Delvino 12:20 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I don't think he's even right about that. The language is changing, which is confirmed by the very fact that the substitution is so ubiquitous. There's nothing shameful about it. Going back to John Simon... as a student of linguistics, I find it really galling that someone would accuse others of being "subliterate" or "illiterate" (which is it, anyway?) for having a slightly different grammar from his own. | |
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| re: One can agree with him about only one thing... | |
| Posted by: | PeterJCasey 06:37 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
| In reply to: | re: One can agree with him about only one thing... - kdogg36 01:03 pm EDT 05/06/15 |
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| I assumed those moments were deliberately written, since the character was awkward, gormless Middle Alison. If her father had committed the same errors, that would have seemed like bad writing. | |
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