| At the Zorba talkback, Walter Bobbie responds | |
| Posted by: | wisebear 06:49 pm EDT 05/09/15 |
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| A questioner asked why Bobbie chose to eliminate the opening bouzouki circle. I felt his response was rather lame. He blamed having the orchestra onstage, saying it didn't make sense to have a circle of thirty musicians sitting in front of thirty musicians. Not very satisfying a response, considering (in my opinion) the cost of what you lose in drama. He described his opening as "starting with breath." More like a gasp. Still I enjoyed much about the production, despite finding the lead atrocious. (And with a potentially awesome Zorba - Robert Cuccioli - being wasted right there on the same stage). | |
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| Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) | |
| Posted by: | mikem 11:16 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | At the Zorba talkback, Walter Bobbie responds - wisebear 06:49 pm EDT 05/09/15 |
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| (spoilers) At the talkback, someone also mentioned that this production of Zorba felt like a play with music rather than a musical, and I felt that was accurate. Jack Viertel mentioned that the book scenes were some of the longest that Encores has ever had. And Santino Fontana was the only principal whom I felt sang wonderfully. John Turturro and Zoe Wanamaker are not great singers, and Marin Mazzie and Elizabeth A Davis both seemed to be singing roles that did not fit their voices well. By being a "play with music," the plot and themes come to the forefront, and I had major issues with the material. This is my first exposure to Zorba. I have never seen the movie or read the novel, either. Some of the premise hasn't aged well. Zorba is a relentless womanizer (and I think he said he has a wife at home), and he will lie and mislead (and embezzle his employer's money) to try to get a woman into bed with him. That may have been part of the "embrace life!" philosophy of the past, but now it makes him seem like a creep. And Turturro is giving a very small performance. His Zorba is not larger than life at all. He seems like an ordinary man, who may be a fast talker, but is very flawed. And that brings the creepiness factor even more to the front. And I'm not sure what the authors are trying to say about Zorba's philosophy overall. He encourages Niko to embrace his philosophy and romance the widow, which results in a suicide, and a murder of a completely innocent person. And the ransacking of Hortense's house (which the villagers try to start while she is still alive -- the villagers act throughout like they're part of some lawless evil cult) and the failure of the mine seem cynical. Bad things happen to the characters through no fault of their own, and it seemed the fates were against them. I didn't think the show was depressing or dark so much as cynical. I'm curious what others think. | |
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| defining "a play with music" | |
| Posted by: | Michael_212 03:45 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) - mikem 11:16 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| I've always understood the term "play with music" as a play that only contains songs sung in a realistic context, i.e. a scene where a character is on stage singing a song. A perfect example would be Say, Darling, which had a full score of songs but was considered a play because they sing them in a realistic context. Once a piece exists in a world where people naturally use song and dance to express themselves, you've got a musical. | |
| Link | Corner Table |
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| sorta like "Lady Day at Emerson's Bar and Grill"? | |
| Posted by: | garyd 12:26 am EDT 05/11/15 |
| In reply to: | defining "a play with music" - Michael_212 03:45 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
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| I continue to ask what this "play" would have to "say" if not for the score. What is "Billie" expressing outside of the music she sings in this piece? | |
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| re: Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) | |
| Posted by: | TomE 02:40 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) - mikem 11:16 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| I didn't think of this at all as a "play with music." Especially during the second act, I was wishing for significantly more dialogue to flesh things out. As it was, I just barely caught the fact that the mine is already useless. And, when, at the end, Zorba says to Santino Fontana's character (approximately), "I've never loved a man as much as I love you," it didn't work (for me) because the relationship as portrayed had been so minimal. Also, regarding the tone of the piece -- I think they were simply presenting the good and the bad in an intentionally "indiscriminate" way, to match the idea that "Life Is" a bunch of different things, and some of the good ones (falling in love) can lead to some of the bad ones (suicide, feuds, etc). That's also why I would have been in favor of a beginning like the one in the Tony Awards presentation -- it's a miniature version of the whole play, I think (for instance, an image of lovers out walking is immediately followed by "my fist in your face"). I also didn't find Zorba's character problematic. He struck me as someone with believably good and bad traits. And the statements he made often seemed reasonable, especially when he explains that he isn't going to try to punish the murderous townspeople because they, in turn, would try to kill him and/or his relatives. To me, the biggest problem with the widow storyline was the obviously contrived manner in which Zorba gives people he's just fought with access to a knife and then tells their soon-to-be victim, "Follow me." He is obviously smart enough to hold onto the knife and have the widow walk in front of him while they warily leave the scene. In any case, I did not get the sense of a hippie-ish '60s sensibility, or too much preachiness, from the show last night. However, I did find certain aspects of the Encores choreography pretentious -- particularly the slow dancing with highly amplified, over-emphatic "breathing" that opened the show. | |
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| The widow | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 01:01 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) - mikem 11:16 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| I didn't know the show very well before seeing the Encores! production on Friday, and there were several plot points in the book that I found to be highly unpalatable. Yes, the way Zorba takes all that money from Niko, supposedly to buy supplies to get the mine going again, and then spends most of it on women and booze, definitely makes him seem like a creepy, sponging user. And the fact that Niko is only mildly upset by this, and gets over it very quickly, struck me as extremely weird. Also, I couldn't understand why the townspeople are so horribly mean and insulting to the widow -- especially in the first act of the show, before the young man's suicide (which, of course, she's not responsible for anyway). According to the Wikipedia entry on the film of ZORBA, the Widow "is incessantly teased by the townspeople for not remarrying, especially to a young, local boy who is madly in love with her." Really? That makes the townspeople seem overtly vicious, a does the scene of the scavengers gathering to ransack Hortense's home as soon as she dies. In these and other moments, I think the book goes way, way overboard in stressing the dark side of life and humanity. But I do love the score :-) | |
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| re: The widow - haiku review | |
| Posted by: | Damselfly0 12:25 am EDT 05/11/15 |
| In reply to: | The widow - Michael_Portantiere 01:01 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
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| The treatment of the Widow in the show (and Hortense) is really hard to swallow - never having seen the show before, I was horrified. A friend of mine writes Haiku Reviews of shows, and hers for Zorba was one of my favorites: Life is what you do Unless you are a woman Then you're just murdered. | |
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| re: The widow | |
| Posted by: | mikem 07:56 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | The widow - Michael_Portantiere 01:01 pm EDT 05/10/15 |
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| Having seen Zorba and The King and I, I remembered that The King and I was (?is) banned in Thailand for being offensive. But Zorba IMO portrays Cretans much worse than anyone comes off in The King and I. | |
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| re: Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) | |
| Posted by: | larry13 11:36 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) - mikem 11:16 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| Thank you, very interesting and thought provoking. Like you, I'd never seen the show before or read the book or seen the movie. I agree with much of what you say. I found Zorba the man to be a pompous blowhard much of the time; I found some of ZORBA the musical to similarly contain patronizing "this is how you should live your life" material, especially as expressed by the ubiquitous Leader. No offense to Mazzie(who sang very well, even if I thought she wasn't ideal casting)or Kander's propulsive melodies, but was it necessary to have her around SO much of the time, especially in the few scenes between the Widow and Niko? I understand that the cutting of the book, especially in the second act, may have harmed the story. It certainly was very difficult to accept the actions of the villagers--and Zorba's acceptance of them--if this was NOT the theme of the show. Even THE VISIT, with its watered down portrait of the town, in the musical, is much clearer an indictment of the citizens. Yes, ZORBA as presented by Encores was not primarily depressing or dark. I don't know if I would characterize the tone as cynical as much as mixed or confused. | |
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| re: Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) | |
| Posted by: | lowwriter 11:30 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | Zorba as "a play with music" (spoilers) - mikem 11:16 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| I haven't watched the movie in ages but as a kid I remember being shocked by the villagers pillaging the dead woman's home. So that comes from the movie. | |
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| You left out half his answer. | |
| Posted by: | TimDunleavy 10:26 pm EDT 05/09/15 |
| In reply to: | At the Zorba talkback, Walter Bobbie responds - wisebear 06:49 pm EDT 05/09/15 |
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| The other reason was that they were hiring actors, not actor/musicians - there was not enough time to audition actor/musicians, and nine days of rehearsal isn't enough time to teach all the actors instruments. Was that still not satisfying enough for you? | |
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| re: You left out half his answer. | |
| Posted by: | JAS 01:11 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | You left out half his answer. - TimDunleavy 10:26 pm EDT 05/09/15 |
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| Nothing in the libretto says that the performers have to be able to act and play instruments. But cutting all the recit lead-ins to "Life Is" made the opening very awkward: the show seemed to start in the middle of the song, which it kind of did. And Mazzie, in an odd role to begin with, was not helped at all by her awful wig and costume. She just kept popping up in various places. ("Look, Vrenios--there's that woman again! Who IS she?" "I don't know; I thought YOU invited her!") The serious shows Encores! presents are always tricky--you need to be careful trimming the book, or the balance stumbles. Act two of ZORBA at Encores! seemed rushed and felt unsatisfying. I'm guessing Bobbie would've had some say in casting, and the casting was often head-scratchingly odd: why cast John Turturro when he CAN'T SING or dance?? And Zoe Wanamaker, who created a fascinating, heartbreaking Mme. Hortense, had enough trouble with her singing to make her performance uncomfortable for me to watch. And the less said about the awkward choreography, the better! As happy as I was to hear the score again, this was, for me, one of the weaker Encores! productions. | |
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| re: You left out half his answer. | |
| Posted by: | AlanScott 02:40 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You left out half his answer. - JAS 01:11 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| The published script does suggest that a lot of them should play instruments in the opening number — "Everyone has some sort of instrument and they accompany the chorus, both with the instruments and vocal background." But I nonetheless agree with you. I think only a few people played instruments in the original production. In the Tonys clip, you see a bunch of people holding instruments, but my sense is that most of them never actually played the instruments. There were three bouzouki players onstage who sometimes played, and it does look like perhaps a couple of other people in the cast did genuinely play during the opening number (though possibly not). But there is absolutely no reason that you need to have people playing, especially for an Encores! production. I presume they did have some bouzouki players in the orchestra, and I can't see why they couldn't have been in the circle for the opening number and then joined the orchestra. I also agree that when they hire people with no experience in musicals for leads at Encores!, it's risky. There's a limited rehearsal period and no preview period. Just an invited dress. Someone with no experience in musicals might be able to get comfortable with a full rehearsal period and a few weeks of previews, but that doesn't happen at Encores! | |
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| re: You left out half his answer. | |
| Posted by: | Michael_Portantiere 11:58 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You left out half his answer. - AlanScott 02:40 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| "Someone with no experience in musicals might be able to get comfortable with a full rehearsal period and a few weeks of previews, but that doesn't happen at Encores!" Excellent point. And this has also been true of at least two musically disastrous performances by non-singers in productions of musicals by the New York Philharmonic: Gabriel Byrne in CAMELOT and Stephen Colbert in COMPANY. | |
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| re: You left out half his answer. | |
| Posted by: | wisebear 12:51 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | You left out half his answer. - TimDunleavy 10:26 pm EDT 05/09/15 |
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| No, it wasn't. It assumes that the actors must be the musicians. If that is the only possible staging he can conceive, then I'm surprised at his expressed eagerness to direct this production. I've seen several different approaches to the bouzouki circle, and none of them involved actors becoming expert musicians. And I thought his joke/dig about hiring Doyle was unnecessary. Don't get me wrong - I'm a Walter Bobbie fan. But I wonder if he would do everything the same again if he had another chance, from casting to directorial choices. | |
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| re: You left out half his answer. | |
| Posted by: | owk 12:01 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | You left out half his answer. - TimDunleavy 10:26 pm EDT 05/09/15 |
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| So many people on this site have referenced the power of the story circle at the beginning of the show (I didn't see the original, though I was in college at the time) that I finally looked at it on the Tony Awards. It was no doubt powerful in it's time, but by today's standards seemed very hippy-dippy to me and a little embarrassing. I'm not crazy about how the Encores version of Zorba opens, but I'm far from sure that a replication of this 1968 idea of new-and-now would have helped any. It's kind of like ethnic-dancing combined with the Newport Folk Festival. Not for me, anyhow. | |
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| re: You left out half his answer. | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 12:12 am EDT 05/10/15 |
| In reply to: | re: You left out half his answer. - owk 12:01 am EDT 05/10/15 |
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| I have no earthly idea what you mean by "hippy-dippy," in describing an opening devoid of pretense or preciousness. It was a naturalistic framework and to me the opposite of embarrassing. The Mt. Olympus drag on Mazzie alone is 180 from that concept, far more precious and arch. And kitsch. I'll take the original. Still. | |
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