| Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | NewtonUK 09:20 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| A few weeks ago I started reading RAZZLE DAZZLE by Michael Riedel, which covers interesting periods during the 'cowboy days' of Broadway pre 1963. On page 5 I found a major inaccuracy about the number of shows that opened in the 1962-63 - "There ad only been seventeen new shows in the 1962-1963 season, Many of them flops". I knew immediately that this could not be right - and a quick fact check confirmed this. 55 plays and musicals opened in the 1962-1963. 35 were out and out flops. That means 36% weren't flops. Hmmm. The average of shows that recoup or otherwise succeed hovers between 25% and 35% every year since WW2. And the previous season 1961-1962 saw 58 openings, including mega hits like A FUNNY THING HAPPENED, A THOUSAND CLOWNS, TAKE HER SHES MINE, A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS, HOW TO SUCCEED IN BUSINESS, MILK & HONEY, and Pinter's THE CARETAKER. So why was Broadway dying? We were in the midst of the last 6 or 7 years of the Golden Age. Many things have distracted me since, and I'm only on page 24 now. Sam Shubert arrives in NYC in 1900. Mr Riedel writes "With more than fifty productions opening every year in theatres stretching from Union Square to Longacre Square, New York was the engine of the AMerican Theatre." Does Simon & Schuster not employ fact checkers for non-fiction books? I'm available. Lets take 3 seasons around when Sam Shubert arrived in New York. In the 1899-1900 season, 160 productions opened on Broadway, including the original production of WIlliam Gilette's SHERLOCK HOLMES. Well, yes, that's more than 50. In the 1900-1901 Season,132 productions opened. Again. SUre, more than 50. In the 1901-1902 Season, 122 productions opened. In a book about Broadway history, how are we meant to believe all of the (terrific) stories that Riedel recounts, if simple facts that can be checked online in 5 minutes are incorrect? | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | WWriter 09:21 pm EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - NewtonUK 09:20 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| I found the book sloppy in the extreme. My review includes some examples. I hate to think of someone reading this decades from now and thinking it's history. | |
| Link | Razzle Dazzle review |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | keikekaze 02:43 pm EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - NewtonUK 09:20 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| We've had a conversation similar to this one recently. It seems to me, if I'm recalling the other thread correctly, Riedel may have made his comment about the "only 17 productions had opened" while in the middle of some anecdote keyed to some date in the 1962-63 season, possibly some time in November, 1962? If that's the case, and he meant that only 17 productions had opened so far by the date of the anecdote, then that might have been correct. I think the 17th Broadway production of the 1962-63 season opened some time in November. But I haven't got the book, so you'll have to tell me. And Riedel probably should have specified more clearly that he meant "opened so far," if that's what he meant. The remark about "more than 50 productions" opening every year circa 1900 is also technically true--but so far short of the mark that, I agree, it looks like wild guesswork rather than anything that had been checked. | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | NewtonUK 08:48 am EST 11/02/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - keikekaze 02:43 pm EST 11/01/15 |
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| The 1962-1963 error (17 openings) seems to be referencing the whole season. Regardless, its a misleading statement. The 1962-1963 was not much different than the two prior or two after, in number of shows produced, and % of flops. The book seems to be saying that this is an outlandishly small number of shows. The 1900 error? Well - whats puzzling to me is that you can just click on the IBDB site an count the number of shows in any season - and also click thru and find out how many were original (1st Broadway production) and how many were revivals - or in the case of 1900, shows that closed over the summer and re-opened. The number 50 had to come from somewhere - maybe from the bio of the Shuberts that Riedel quotes. Still - for something simple like a numbers of shows - a hard fact - it seems more than odd not to do, or have someone do, a quick check of it. | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | davei2000 03:26 pm EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - keikekaze 02:43 pm EST 11/01/15 |
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| You can look at the passage in question on Amazon. It's on page 5, and appears to be paraphrasing Leland Hayward speaking in a meeting that occurred at the end of the season. The Times article Riedel quotes on p. 3, supposedly published on the same day as the meeting, appeared on June 7. | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | DCollingwood 01:08 pm EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - NewtonUK 09:20 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| Perhaps he meant 17 *new* shows? Only referring to things that had premiered that season and not counting revivals? | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | NewtonUK 01:38 pm EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - DCollingwood 01:08 pm EST 11/01/15 |
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| I thought that at one point - checking I found 51 new musicals and plays that season! | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | abbigail62 11:25 am EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - NewtonUK 09:20 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| FYI: Unike magazines, publishers do not have fact checkers. The author bears the responsibility for fact checking. | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | icecadet 11:25 am EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - NewtonUK 09:20 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| "Does Simon & Schuster not employ fact checkers for non-fiction books?" Not in this day of cut-backs. Publishers (erroneously) assume that the authors have done their homework or, in the case of autobiographies, aren't suffering from "selective memory!" | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check | |
| Posted by: | whereismikeyfl 06:46 am EST 11/02/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - icecadet 11:25 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| It is not just in this day of cut backs. As far as I know (and I began working in publishing in the 1980s), book publishers NEVER hired fact checkers. That was and is the author's responsibility. Periodicals was where you would find fact-checkers. | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check: PS | |
| Posted by: | NewtonUK 09:47 am EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check - NewtonUK 09:20 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| Don;t fact check me - yes - it covers other things than the 'cowboy' producing years - that's where it starts when 'ice' was melted (more or less) and investment began being regulated. | |
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| re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check: PS | |
| Posted by: | davei2000 10:51 am EST 11/01/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Riedel/RazzleDazzle/Fact Check: PS - NewtonUK 09:47 am EST 11/01/15 |
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| This post could use a coherence check... | |
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