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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 10:38 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:36 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - CCentero 10:21 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| She hasn't played to an empty seat--no(r) will she ever in the show. The above is a bit of hyperbole that may not quite jive up with your later statement "but let's at least stick to the facts." ;-) |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: CCentero 10:40 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - Chromolume 10:36 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| I'm not following your reply. | |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:09 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:56 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - CCentero 10:40 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| Unless you're at the theatre every night to make sure there are never ever any empty seats, and you are one hell of a prognosticator in terms of every performance left in the run, I think you're overreaching. Better to stick to the facts - ones that you can actually back up. ;-) Mind you, I'm not disputing that Midler has had a great career, etc, nor am I disputing your defense of her. But to make a rather fantastical statement on one hand, no matter how well-meaning, then to talk about "facts" - both don't quite work in the same post, lol. ;-) I hope you see the irony as well. |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:16 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - Chromolume 10:56 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| I think you have let a tangent divert from the real over-reach. Selling every seat is in no way a metric of how good one's acting is. I guarantee you that were Gaga to take over, every seat would be sold. Does that tell us anything about her acting ability? How about Britney Spears? Melania Trump? Angela Merkel? OK now I am getting silly. |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: CCentero 02:48 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - ryhog 02:16 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| "I'm really sick of people on this board creating revisionist history about Bette Midler at every turn. Very few people in the show business can match her impressive resume in as many categories." That's the point of my post, counselor. | |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:29 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - CCentero 02:48 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| I understand that. I also understand that it is a non sequitur. What I was suggesting to Chromolume was that he not take the bait. I happen to think she is a fine actor, but I also accept the fact that she is not exactly Olivier when it comes to losing herself in her roles. For some, that defines acting. (I would also note that many of our most beloved actors bring a great deal of themselves to all of their roles.) Notwithstanding the above, success and esteem do not correlate. |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:10 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - ryhog 04:29 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| What I was suggesting to Chromolume was that he not take the bait. Ha! Already done, of course. And, at the risk of taking MORE bait - I also happen to think that a statement such as "this is one of the greatest personal triumphs in musical theatre history" is just a little much. Can't we be honestly thrilled that Midler is having such a great run without having to carve a likeness of her face into Mt. Everest, lol? At the same time, I don't think CCentero was really noticing my smileys/lols in response to his posts. It's not that I'm not a little put off by the hyperbole, but neither was *I* trying to make this debate the "Biggest. Thing. Ever." either...;-) |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: CCentero 09:40 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - Chromolume 05:10 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| I said: "This is one of the greatest personal triumphs in musical theatre history" because I know what I'm talking about. Facts are not hyperbole. | |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: JohnDunlop 10:41 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - CCentero 09:40 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| I agree. But, like everyone else in show business, Bette Midler is not always successful. I remember attending a benefit concert honoring Merman after she died. There were two performers who stood out, in different ways. Elaine Stritch captured Merman's essence, in stories and songs. Midler was Bette Midler doing bits of her current tour. Still, I did like Bette Midler's arena shows. And I am sure I will like her in Dolly when I see the musical just before Christmas. |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:14 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - CCentero 09:40 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| "Sometimes legends make reality, and become more useful than the facts."- Salman Rushdie "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."- Mark Twain I could go on, but I won't. :-) |
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| Olivier/Midler | |
| Last Edit: CCentero 10:36 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
| Posted by: CCentero 10:33 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - ryhog 10:14 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| Interesting quote that Thom915 from Oliver about Midler. | |
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| re: Olivier/Midler | |
| Last Edit: ryhog 11:23 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:11 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
| In reply to: Olivier/Midler - CCentero 10:33 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
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| Yes. I was surprised by the coincidence as I pulled his name out of a hat from which I easily could have pulled a different name. I'd be interested to learn the context. Found it! He was speaking of her Depression Tour in 1976, which I think reinforces the notion that her strong suit is playing Bette. No one seems to be suggesting that she is not a great entertainer. The question is about her attributes as an actor and while we can of course debate that, I don't think one side of the debate gains sustenance from her success as an entertainer. FWIW I chased her up and down the east coast to see her tour gigs multiple times. And 2-3 years ago I astonished some friends after dinner by reciting from memory virtually every word of Mud Will Be Flung Tonight. |
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| re: Olivier/Midler | |
| Posted by: CCentero 12:52 pm EDT 07/09/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Olivier/Midler - ryhog 11:11 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
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| The discussion I reacted to was: "But Murphy, unlike Midler, is an actor." That's what I object to: the continual nastiness/revisionist history about Midler. It doesn't actually build up Donna Murphy to tear down Midler, it's just a girl fight that people are creating on this board. I'm not even addressing the claim that Midler is a great actress, because nobody knows nothing, especially when people claimed for years that stars like Chaplin, Cary Grant and Kate Hepburn were simply playing themselves. Bette's strong suit may be playing Bette, but that might also be a function of what she was offered in Hollywood and what she turned down. William Goldman said she would have been fine in "Misery" and I agree. FWIW, I actually think you're a bigger fan of Midler's than I am! I don't own a single one of her recordings. |
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| re: Olivier/Midler | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:39 pm EDT 07/09/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Olivier/Midler - CCentero 12:52 pm EDT 07/09/17 | |
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| perhaps we could put this to rest by putting quotes around "actor." As she is unquestionably a member of AEA, SAG et al, and has appeared on stage before a paying audience, she is certain an actor literally. The quotes would tell us that the person writing doesn't think much of her as an actor, under their subjective definition. And to that point, even Olivier's opinion does not alter that. (Not to mention Goldman, someone I find hard to take as a reliable barometer of anything, but that's another thread.) | |
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| re: Olivier/Midler | |
| Last Edit: CCentero 02:39 pm EDT 07/09/17 | |
| Posted by: CCentero 02:33 pm EDT 07/09/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Olivier/Midler - ryhog 01:39 pm EDT 07/09/17 | |
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| I won't put a quote around Bette Midler as an actor. It's a ridiculous assertion that she can't act. | |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: CCentero 10:44 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - ryhog 10:14 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| "What I wouldn't give for a large sock with horse manure in it"--Alvy Singer | |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: MikeR 12:35 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - Chromolume 10:56 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| That's really splitting hairs, don't you think? The show has been at over 100% capacity since it opened, with the exception of last week (Murphy's first full week in the show). Those are verifiable facts. I suppose it's possible that along the way a person or two didn't show up and the seat remained empty, but I think we all knew what CCentero meant. | |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Posted by: JohnDunlop 11:42 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - Chromolume 10:56 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| I agree with you. I remember getting very sick in New York with the beginning stages of pneumonia and not being able to leave the hotel or think about giving my Broadway tickets to someone else. It happened very quickly and without warning. | |
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| re: i must disagree with.... | |
| Last Edit: showusyourtalent 02:34 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
| Posted by: showusyourtalent 02:33 am EDT 07/09/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - JohnDunlop 11:42 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| At least it was a "paid for" empty seat. | |
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| this is getting ridiculous... | |
| Posted by: Michaels 12:29 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: re: i must disagree with.... - JohnDunlop 11:42 am EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| It's safe to say that Bette in Dolly has never played to an UNSOLD seat. Every Bette performance in Dolly has been sold out (don't you read Variety?) And it's a safe bet that all future performances with Bette will be sold out. So please give the lady her due...her run in Dolly is a historic triumph. |
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| re: this is getting ridiculous... | |
| Posted by: CCentero 02:43 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: this is getting ridiculous... - Michaels 12:29 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| Bless you. | |
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| re: this is getting ridiculous... | |
| Posted by: JohnDunlop 02:23 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
| In reply to: this is getting ridiculous... - Michaels 12:29 pm EDT 07/08/17 | |
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| Hello, Dolly may eventually sell out for the complete Midler run, but there plenty of seat available now for December. | |
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