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| re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? | |
| Posted by: summertheater 10:54 pm EDT 08/15/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? - Chazwaza 10:46 pm EDT 08/15/17 | |
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| Way too many. When you add in the off-Broadway & off-off-Broadway, even if you saw a show every day (with 2 shows on Wed, Sat, and Sun), you'd never possibly be able to see everything. Unfathomable how some off-Broadway theater companies can produce so many shows per season (Signature, Playwrights Horizons, etc). Many of which are of questionable quality. There's just no time to see that many shows. Then you have Roundabout and its many theaters plus its two "Black Box" shows per year, etc etc. People are complaining about Roundabout's quality on this board and have been cancelling their memberships to Roundabout. Maybe theaters should severely cut back on their offerings to put on a few quality shows that appeal to the general population. Much rather a theater company have 2 or 3 good shows per season, than 6 shows of which 4 are crap. People who work, who have families, who have limited incomes, can only see "X" amount of shows per year. That's just a finite number. Theater companies like Roundabout or Playwrights Horizons can program 50 shows a year if they want to. But "X" is still a finite number for most people. And paying audiences will only see the same "X" per year, since they only have a finite amount of money and time. |
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| What a great idea! | |
| Posted by: NoticeMeGertrude 12:58 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? - summertheater 10:54 pm EDT 08/15/17 | |
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| Just don't produce shows that are crap! Now, who gets to decide which ones are crap? |
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| re: What a great idea! | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:26 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: What a great idea! - NoticeMeGertrude 12:58 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| But that doesn't work either because sometimes shows that are "crap" are hits, or find enough of an audience to run a year or two, which is longer than many brilliant or worthwhile shows. | |
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| re: What a great idea! | |
| Posted by: summertheater 04:48 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: What a great idea! - Chazwaza 01:26 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| Good point, but if you have a limited amount of money to spend to put on a show, you'd most likely want to program the show that appeals to the widest possible audience, so you have the greatest chance of making a profit. If you're not sure about something, you can test it via workshops and/or off-off-Broadway before it goes into the "big leagues" of off-Broadway or Broadway. Off-Broadway and Broadway shouldn't be the place to test market shows that fail and never make their money back. | |
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| re: What a great idea! | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:47 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: re: What a great idea! - summertheater 04:48 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| But i just don't think that's how theater in nyc works nowadays. Now, for a show to have a real life, it needs to be on Broadway for some amount of time... there are exceptions but generally not. And there's no way to know that a successful show in a workshop or off-off or even off-broadway will be a success in a broadway context/market/theater etc. And I'm sure you know there is not a single show that has been mounted on broadway without many readings and workshops or smaller productions before broadway. Yes there may be an exception now and then but generally not. | |
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| re: What a great idea! | |
| Posted by: Vectorbabe 03:06 pm EDT 08/18/17 | |
| In reply to: re: What a great idea! - Chazwaza 01:47 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| The question is what do you mean by "a real life"? Do you mean that it has a lasting imprint on the theatre scene with touring companies, licensed productions, high school productions, etc. The great exception to that rule is then Seussical. Having played less than six months on Broadway, "it closed in less than six months, having lost more than $10 million, and went into the history books as one of Broadway’s biggest disappointments" (from the NY Times article, 2007). But that flop has gone on to be quite profitable. "Almost immediately after the show was licensed, it became the most popular title in the catalog for Music Theater International. It’s still [as of 2007] in the Top Three" (NY Times) So although the general theatre community thought the show was "crap". (My word. Not printed) It has made money for its producers since it closed. I have been unable to find out if it recouped the original investors's money. |
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| Link | NY Times, 2007 |
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| re: What a great idea! | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:54 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: What a great idea! - summertheater 04:48 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| one would hope that non-profits are not focused on profit, and that they would take risks which necessarily means some shows will not succeed. I'd hate a theatre community in which that wasn't largely the case, and I tend to veer away from companies for whom the prevailing goals are profit and risk aversion. | |
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| re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:20 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? - summertheater 10:54 pm EDT 08/15/17 | |
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| In one sense we are agreeing, but I must disagree about what off-broadway theaters and subscription non-profits should do. They have a difference producing model financially and different missions. I LIKE when theaters like that take chances. I don't want them to just do a few "good" productions (good is very subjective) that appeal to the "general population". I always prefer to like or love a show I see but I'm happy to roll the dice and take the ride and not like something if it means another time I get something special and/or something I love or have not seen before. I am so glad I could see "A Life", it's one of my favorite play experiences recently... I did not love "The Light Years", though I found some value in it. Neither plays are ones everyone is going to love... I loved one, and it was worth seeing two to get it. I loved Bernada Alba at LCT Mitzi... I did not like The Glorious Ones. Neither show are safe bets... but, besides that producing the work of incredible writers whether this particular one of theirs is their best yet or their worst is a worthwhile thing for our culture, I'm so glad they can do what they want because a lot of the time I love it, and some times I do not, and that's okay. Anyway... I don't think non-profits have an obligation to do shows that please the whole subscriber base or the general population... they have an objection to not be irrelevant as a theater. Being bad can get you there, taking chances and failing sometimes does not in my eyes. Commercial Broadway producing is another story. But besides the financials that I presented... I think it sucks that Bandstand and War Paint lost out on getting almost any nominations, like for writing lets say, but in a worse and less competitive year they would have no only done better at the box office and also with the Tony nominations and recognition. Given the times we are in, the fact that there were worthy NEW musicals with original scores that didn't even get nominations for Best Musical, Score or Book... we are spoiled, and I feel bad for those shows and their creators (outside of the fact that their shows got to Broadway and had cast albums done, which is more than most can say). |
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| re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? | |
| Posted by: Whistler 12:04 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? - summertheater 10:54 pm EDT 08/15/17 | |
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| Personally, I'd much rather have too many productions to choose from -- and it certainly helps all the artists involved. Not everyone eats everything on a menu, or sees every movie, or watches everything on the Internet or TV. I think you get my point. | |
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| re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:26 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? - Whistler 12:04 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| It does helps the artists, but in some senses it doesn't. To counter, if there were less shows and they had more of a corner on the market and so made more and ran longer and made more profit etc, people working on the shows might get paid more for the work they do... and the performers and crews would get paid longer. And they would be known to more audiences because there are less to know... same as how being on a broadcast network (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX) up until 10 years ago would mean that you're a national star and name most people have heard of, whereas now you can be the star of a hit tv show and have a majority of tv viewers having never heard of you or seen your show (in some cases you can have a hit show that people haven't even heard of). You have more known stage stars, titles, longer runs, investors can bank and creators more readily, more audiences likely to see the shows that do open in a season, etc. But then... I think the best time was when shows cost less and didn't need to run 3+ years to be profitable, and most shows ran 9 months - 1.5 years and there were more shows but it took less for them to be worth funding. But I think back then it was less common to have years where they're scrambling to award "new" musicals vs years where good new musicals don't even get nominated because the category is full. So while I wouldn't limit opportunity in order to maximize the potential of the fewer opportunities, there are two sides to the coin. |
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| Numbers | |
| Posted by: Whistler 01:05 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Do we have too many shows running in a season? - Chazwaza 12:26 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| We'd need some numbers to determine how more actors and other production people working possibly more frequently though for shorter periods of time compare to possibly fewer people overall working for longer periods. | |
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