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| one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:22 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: I wanna be a part of BA, Big Apple (Evita) - bobby2 01:55 am EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| I have always been bothered by it, since I first heard it and every time since. Not only the idea of her calling it "big apple" as if Buenos Aires is known as that, but also the phrasing... everything. I want to be a part of B.A. Buenos Aires Big Apple And is "B.A." referring to Buenos Aires or Big Apple or both, and why? Do they use that for either? Certainly no one in the actual Big Apple calls it B.A. Also does Tim Rice really think the audiences won't understand that Buenos Aires, the capital and only city they've heard of in Argentina, is a big deal and similar to NYC for Eva? It seems so unnecessary. But it's also not set up, it's not like previous to that she sings "Buenos Aires is like New York City" or "I want to take a bite of the Big Apple, Buenos Aires"... I can't even dissect it it's weird on too many levels. |
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| Concordo! | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 11:05 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chazwaza 01:22 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| I couldn't agree more. Unless you were reading the lyrics while listening to the score, you'd have no f'ing clue what she was trying to say. Not only does no one in Buenos Aires say "Big Apple," -- manzana grande? -- they also don't abbreviate Buenos Aires as BA. They write BsAs. I think Tim Rice is guilty of awkward lyrics all the fuck over the place. Don't even get me started on CHESS. - GMB, who has spent so much time in Buenos Aires that he can tell you were to find the city's best empanadas |
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| Of course,,with Patti... | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 12:18 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: Concordo! - GrumpyMorningBoy 11:05 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| ...we often need those lyrics or we're f'ing clueless as to what she said. ;) Laura |
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| OF COURSE, this warrants the brilliant subtitled performance of Ms. Lupone | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 12:22 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: Of course,,with Patti... - showtunetrivia 12:18 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| If you've never seen it, you must. - GMB |
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| Link | Patti LuPone - Buenos Aires (with subtitles) |
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| I haven't seen that in years! | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 03:15 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: OF COURSE, this warrants the brilliant subtitled performance of Ms. Lupone - GrumpyMorningBoy 12:22 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| My daughter says it had vanished from YouTube. So glad it's back. One of the funniest things ever. Laura |
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| re: I haven't seen that in years! | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:37 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: I haven't seen that in years! - showtunetrivia 03:15 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| It's wonderful and confirmed my impression of Patti when I saw her in the show way back then. Great voice, excellent stage presence, but what the fuck is she saying half the time! | |
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| re: Concordo! | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:14 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: Concordo! - GrumpyMorningBoy 11:05 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| Yes, Tim Rice has MANY MANY offenses in his lyric writing. But he also has done a lot of good work too, so i'm pretty conflicted on him. But sadly of all the bad lyricists ALW has worked with, and I don't think he's ever worked with a consistently good one, Rice isn't even the worst.. and is maybe the best. |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:03 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chazwaza 01:22 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| It's funny. I've never really had much of a problem with this lyric, except maybe for the mis-accented "Big-ap-PUHL." "Big Apple" had been a very popular phrase in 1970's New York (it was around before then, but was revitalized in the 70's), so Rice was seizing on a popular topical phrase - as many lyricists have done at times over the ages. Obviously "BA" refers to both Buenos Aires and Big Apple - must it only refer to one of those? It's a clever bit of wordplay, and I think after hearing it a few times (as we do in the show) the wordplay should become evident. It certainly was to me the first time I heard it. It's certainly not awkward/forced to me in the same way that this Lorenz Hart lyric from Pal Joey is (which we once discussed out here, and I still have to confess I don't really get it at face value): "Thought he is well adjusted Certan things make him a wreck. Last year his arm was busted Reaching from a check." Or, to take an entire song by Mr. Rice - the poetic gobbledygook that "Any Dream Will Do" seems to be, IMO. I'm sure we can all think of lyrics that strike us as MUCH more awkward/forced than the "BA" lyric. And god knows, people have been misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase "Don't cry for me (Argentina)" since it was written. |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: bmc (bmccabe67@comcast.net) 12:26 am EDT 08/18/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chromolume 04:03 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| Late comment, sorry.But I've always enjoyed the line, and the forced-being-with-it is part of the fun; Instead of reaching FOR the check, he never picks up the tab; The awkwardness, for me, create a picture of someone torque-ing his arm to scramble away from being generous......But I just finished re- reading Mr Sondheim's volumes of Lyrics (with comment). He doesn't like that line either......But I recently watched Ethel Merman in the Call Me Madam DVD, and at the beginning ther narrator says something like Sally Adams arrived in D.C and Said those legendary words, "'ll Take The Check". | |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: davei2000 05:11 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chromolume 04:03 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| It doesn't bother me either, not even the mis-accent, really. She's punching out the words pugnaciously, to show Magaldi she belongs there, and with him. The unexpected expression makes the lyric fun. "Lauren Bacall me" is not quite from the vernacular either (neither is "rainbow high," come to think of it...) The Hart lines strike just as a bad joke, lyricized. Very much a joke of the period, somehow... |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:50 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - davei2000 05:11 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| I agree about Rice in general just having fun with unexpected references, etc. And both the Bacall and the Dior references are at least in period, even if I do tend to wonder if Eva would be wanting to compare herself to Bacall. If also always wondered if "Anything Goes" is meant to be a topical reference as well - though if so, does that somehow try to link Bacall to the Porter musical, lol? (I don't really think so, but the way the lyric works does prompt that question.) I think Joseph, Superstar, and Evita all have moments where Rice uses colloquial references to add a bit of contemporary spin on the story. "Israel in 4BC had no mass communication" or "One was a butler, the Jeeves of his time" etc. He's having irreverent fun, and for me, that works. My essential problem with the Hart lyric is "reaching from," which yes, I understand is meant ironically, but it also makes no logical sense. (I also have to say that for years I didn't even get that THAT was the joke - I was misled by wondering who busted his arm and why, and if "check" was meant to mean "hit" as in sports, etc. The idea of him avoiding picking up a tab never even occurred to me. Though I tend to disagree with Sondheim's general dismissal of Hart as a lazy lyricist, this is one hugely sloppy lyric to me.) |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:28 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chromolume 06:50 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| But the examples you give are examples of it working because they are different kinds of moments in the show. It's not Judas in context of the story saying to Jesus "Israel in 4BC has no mass communication" as if it makes sense to be said. In Evita, Eva is not outside the story or context of the scene, she is in it and talking to another character in it. She's not commenting on it or stepping outside of it or speaking to the audience or speaking after her death. | |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:38 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chazwaza 01:28 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| Ok then, what about: "Always hoped that I'd be an apostle. Knew that I would make it if I tried. Then when we retire, we can write the Gospels So they'll still talk about us when we've died." ;-) |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:15 pm EDT 08/17/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chromolume 11:38 am EDT 08/17/17 | |
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| Ha, yes, that is absolutely ridiculous and always has been. That's a good example of it not working. :) | |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: davei2000 08:27 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - Chromolume 06:50 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| There's one I come down on the other side, "israel in..." bothers me a little because the setting of 4 BEE-cee is so odd. The playful anachronism is cool though... | |
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| re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:43 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
| In reply to: re: one of the more awkward/forced lyrics in Broadway history, I think - davei2000 08:27 pm EDT 08/16/17 | |
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| "israel in..." bothers me a little because the setting of 4 BEE-cee is so odd. I agree. |
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