Threaded Order Chronological Order
| It's not a question of happy endings... | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 11:42 am EDT 10/30/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Genuine question: are LGBT people well-represented in Broadway musicals? - Ncassidine 08:03 pm EDT 10/29/17 | |
|
|
|
| The point I'm essentially trying to raise is that up until now, for MOST of our prominent LGBT characters in Broadway musicals, their sexuality is the primary source of their particular conflict. Either an inner-conflict, attempting to accept themselves (as in FUN HOME, SPRING AWAKENING, Ethan and Malcolm in THE FULL MONTY) or an outer-conflict, attempting to win acceptance from society at large / their particular community (as in LA CAGE AUX FOLLES, KINKY BOOTS, Paul's monologue in A CHORUS LINE, Marvin's relationship with Trina in FALSETTOS). In other works, their sexuality is portrayed as the troublesome source of relationship drama, the way that RENT plays up a classic stereotype about bisexuals being 'selfish' and unable to please, as portrayed in Maureen's drama between Mark and Joanne. Here's what we hardly ever see: an LGBT character who happens to be LGBT, and now has something else exciting going on. We have had a handful. I'm glad that other posters noted the lesbians in FALSETTOS and IF / THEN, and the gay couple in COME FROM AWAY. Hooray for supporting characters. Let's get ourselves some compelling LGBT protagonists overcoming universal challenges that have nothing to do with their sexuality. I do think it's important to say that this is not a mere question of happy endings. WEST SIDE STORY is my favorite musical, and straight-up racism is the enemy of that story. In WSS, it's clear that being latino is inherently going to make life in America more difficult for you; the show becomes a didactic polemic on how racism can literally kill. Obviously, we've seen a LOT of Broadway writers try to make similar antagonists of homophobia -- or closed-mindedness in general (HAIRSPRAY, gobs and gobs of others) -- but it's time for us to move on and explore other foes. As KingSpeed and others have pointed out, TV / Film is waaaaaaaaaay ahead of us on this. Let's catch up, people. - GMB |
|
| reply to this message |
| re: It's not a question of happy endings... | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 01:33 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:31 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| In reply to: It's not a question of happy endings... - GrumpyMorningBoy 11:42 am EDT 10/30/17 | |
|
|
|
| I would propose one reason for the way gays - and all minorities - tend to be portrayed at this stage of the game - and I think it's because we're still at a place where somehow writers feel that overtly celebrating those lifestyles or ethnicities is still needed. Much as I don't like the stereotyping in La Cage, I do appreciate that, in its time, it was an earnest attempt to celebrate aspects of the gay lifestyle onstage, in a way it rarely was at all at the time. But indeed, when will we see a show which has a large cast of gay characters where gayness is not part of the plot? (Even Zanna Don't doesn't quite do that, lol, even in turning the tables.) As much as we should be eternally grateful for August Wilson, for Ain't Misbehavin' (which I consider the king of all musical revues), for shows like Ragtime and Show Boat, for Porgy And Bess, etc - but when will a writer be brave enough to write about black characters without it being about black issues? The same for shows like in The Heights, Pacific Overtures, Allegiance and even Bombay Dreams? We want to celebrate what those shows offer, of course - but could someone have a successful musical that featured an all-Asian cast but had nothing to do with Asians per se? Are we ready for that yet? I think that most people would feel we're not ready for that. That we need more shows that focus on diversity/ethnicity/alternate lifestyles, because we haven't seen enough of them yet. It may be a long time before gay characters who aren't being emphasized as gay will be the norm. As is every conversation about diversity/visibility in theatre, it's not an easy conversation, and there's no easy (or single) answer. But it's important as hell to keep having the discussion. |
|
| reply to this message |
| Which, if you think about it, is what HAMILTON did. | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 05:15 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 05:11 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| In reply to: re: It's not a question of happy endings... - Chromolume 01:31 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
|
|
|
| "I think that most people would feel we're not ready for that." You're right. Most people probably do feel that. And it's bullshit. Because we ARE ready for that. And we will FLOCK to it if it's done well. If you think about it, this is almost exactly what HAMILTON did. It forced us to imagine an alternate reality where a group of black and brown people had the wealth and social power to found a nation, rather than be enslaved by it. We had never seen a musical with a cast of black and brown people whose characters displayed that level of agency, those massive amounts of financial resources, that level of nation-influencing intelligence and wit. And audiences found it thrilling. Imagine if someone showed other minorities who were similarly not HELD BACK by the thing which made them a minority? We WANT these kinds of stories. There are many reasons why those stories are massive hits on America's screens. Let's put them on stage. With music, even. - GMB |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Which, if you think about it, is what HAMILTON did. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 06:43 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| In reply to: Which, if you think about it, is what HAMILTON did. - GrumpyMorningBoy 05:11 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
|
|
|
| an interesting point (as has been this thread so thanks) though I think the Hamilton example is not a great one because it is actually very much about being a minority in a majority world, and more particularly about finding a unique way of embracing and "owning" that world without deferring to it. I think it is still very hard to put a non-majority character in a literary work in America without that status having any significance. (And of course all of this is a tangent of the many threads about color-blindness, which is part of what makes this interesting.) | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: It's not a question of happy endings... | |
| Posted by: Jax 03:50 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| In reply to: re: It's not a question of happy endings... - Chromolume 01:31 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
|
|
|
| I think this conversation has gone so far astray that it's lost it's way. You are asking for theatre without content. Jersey Boys is about being Italian. Dear Evan Hanson is about being a teenager. And so Ain't Misbehavin is about being black. Writers, composers, lyricists, and other artists create out of who they are and the times they live in. To ask them to do otherwise is a kind of artistic fascism. It may come out of some misguided desire to create diversity/visibility, but it is death to the creative urge. Please remember the old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Learn what "intersectionality" means. (nm) | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 05:13 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| In reply to: re: It's not a question of happy endings... - Jax 03:50 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
|
|
|
| nm means naughty moose! | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| I know what it means.....and I don't want to see a musical about it n/m | |
| Posted by: Jax 06:58 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
| In reply to: Learn what "intersectionality" means. (nm) - GrumpyMorningBoy 05:13 pm EDT 10/30/17 | |
|
|
|
| Nobody else does either | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.018433 seconds.