Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 12:09 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:02 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
| In reply to: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions - Zelgo 03:27 pm EST 12/16/17 | |
|
|
|
| New composers are mimicking Sondheim Mostly, I disagree. I think more composers are "mimicking" JRB. Or, to be more accurate, that more pop-infused style that we tend to generically call "contemporary Broadway." It's really a very different kind of sound than Sondheim. Also, though yes, Sondheim is certainly known for his use of intricate patter lyrics (but hey, so was W.S. Gilbert lol), the kind of over-crammed fast lyric writing we tend to get more and more of today, often in a very narrative style (again, JRB, but others too), also has more of a pop influence than anything that really relates to Sondheim. (I think not only of rap influences, but of pop hits like "One Week.") Also, in terms of Herman's shows having any longevity - it's interesting to look at other classic Broadway composers' outputs as well. How many Berlin shows (meaning the ones he actually wrote - not retreads like White Christmas) get produced with any sense of regularity? Only Annie Get Your Gun. Porter? Two shows. (Kiss Me, Kate, and the heavily reworked versions of Anything Goes). Loesser? Two. (Guys And Dolls and How To Succeed.) Harnick and Bock? Two. (Fiddler and She Loves Me.) Gershwin? One. (Porgy And Bess. Again, I'm not counting the shows the original writers didn't conceive in some way.) Kern? One. (Show Boat.) Youmans? One (No, No, Nanette, but in a rewrite of the score he wouldn't much recognize as his own.) Kander and Ebb? Really only two. (Cabaret and Chicago). Lerner and Loewe get 3. Rodgers and Hammerstein, of course, get at least 5, and 6 if you count all the heavily rewritten Cinderellas - but in terms of Rodgers and Hart, probably only Pal Joey and The Boys From Syracuse get done with any sense of regularity - maybe Babes In Arms also. Styne? Gypsy primarily, with Funny Girl and perhaps Bells Are Ringing in the background, though are either of these, especially the latter, really going to ever have a healthy revival rate? There's also Peter Pan of course - but he didn't write the whole score. Jones and Schmidt? Just The Fantasticks. We could go on and on. But look at all these hallowed composers and teams who may have scores full of memorable and respected songs, but who only have a few truly "name" shows that get done with any regularity. And many of the neglected ones are actually very fine shows - we all have our "dark horse" favorites of course. Which to me says that Herman is in solid company. |
|
| reply to this message |
| re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 04:29 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions - Chromolume 12:02 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
|
|
|
| In 50 years' time, I don't think anyone much except for theater specialists will recognize any of the names mentioned above--Herman's or any of the others--or the titles of most of their shows. Fifty years from now, it will be 2067, and nearly all the shows mentioned above will be at least 100 years old, if not 125. That's about the same distance away that we are now from Victor Herbert, John Philip Sousa, and Reginald DeKoven, and who today can so much as name even one of their shows? (Oh, I'm sure people on this board can, but "the man in the street"?) And when was the last time any of them was commercially revived? I agree with the OP that in the future Herman will be "relegated" to non-commercial productions, as an occasional historical curiosity, but I think just about everybody else--including Sondheim--is likely to be, too. In 2067, the writers of the next 50 years will be the ones who are all the rage, and considered immortal. |
|
| reply to this message |
| re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions | |
| Posted by: gcarl44 03:13 pm EST 12/18/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions - keikekaze 04:29 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
|
|
|
| Speaking of 50 years from now, while you may be correct in that Herman and his fellow American contemporaries and predecessors may be forgotten, which of this era's musicals (excluding Sondheim, perhaps) will be remembered or revived? I can envision none that will be seen in 50 years. Even huge critical and commercial hits like Dear Evan Hanson, I don't see being revived in 50 years. IMHO, I think that the shows mentioned (with the exception, perhaps of Show Boat and Porgy & Bess) are revived because of their tremendous entertainment value. They were written to entertain and not necessarily to deliver a message. And while Show Boat and Porgy & Bess had their serious intentions, they were both entertaining as well and musically superior. Musicals today, generally do not have that level of entertainment, and are (again with the exception of Sondheim) not at the levels of Porter, Kern, Gershwin, Herman, Rodgers & Hammerstein or Hart score. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions | |
| Posted by: JohnDunlop 01:58 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions - Chromolume 12:02 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
|
|
|
| Quote: How many Berlin shows (meaning the ones he actually wrote - not retreads like White Christmas) Who wrote "Could Your Blessing (instead of sheep)" Of course, one has to include "White Christmas." |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 04:52 pm EST 12/18/17 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:48 pm EST 12/18/17 | |
| In reply to: re: Prediction: Jerry Herman's Musicals will be Relegated to Encores Productions - JohnDunlop 01:58 pm EST 12/17/17 | |
|
|
|
| White Christmas was written some years after Berlin had passed on. It's not in any way "his" show - he obviously had no say in the artistic choices that were made. (Nor is it even a revival of a stage show he did write, unlike shows I mentioned like Anything Goes or No, No, Nanette, which at least had a basis from which to start when they were rethought for revival.) The OP was referring to Herman's work as a living contributor/collaborator. I'm doing the same - I don't think including shows merely written around a dead man's song catalogue (even when inspired by a film written while they were alive) should belong in the same category. Were we, say, to include all the posthumous Gershwin retreads, it might just wind up that Crazy For You would be one of the most produced Gershwin shows. But since neither of the brothers had anything to do with the creation of that musical (and don't tell me it's "based on Girl Crazy" - very little of it is), it seems very odd to consider it in the same league with the shows they actually did write and collaborate in. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.015239 seconds.