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| 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 10:41 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| At first, I thought this Huffington Post video was a satire, but I guess there are folks who really have a lesser opinion of Loesser's original party tune. The commentator says it's clearly a song about predatory ''seasonal scumbags,'' and that recently the roles of the man and woman have been reversed in the song, to take some of the offensive edge off of it, like the version with Lady Gaga and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Uh, no. In ''Neptune's Daughter'' (1949), the film it was introduced in, there are TWO versions of the tune: Ricardo Montalban tries to get Esther Williams to stay 'cuz ''Baby, It's Cold Outside'' (which the Huffington Post highlights), and then the roles are reversed in a reprise: Betty Garrett tries to get Red Skelton to stay 'cuz ''Baby, It's Cold Outside'' (which the Huffington Post doesn't mention or highlight). (The tune went on to win the 1950 Oscar for Best Song.) By the way, with so many celebrity versions of this song, why did HuffPost choose to feature what seem to be its own less-than-stellar singers? |
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| Link | Huffington Post: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside' - Festive tradition or date-rape anthem? |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: gcarl44 07:45 pm EST 12/20/17 | |
| In reply to: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| This is really going too far. Should we stop singing "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" because it is about adultery? I mean really, are we going to see spooks and goblins and rapes and molesting everywhere we look now? It is bad enough that we have so much of the real thing to contend with; we don't need half-baked interpretations of classic material forced to fit into a schematic representation of some really ugly truths of today. This thread is not worthy of this community, and it doesn't warrant much of a response. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 04:30 pm EST 12/20/17 | |
| In reply to: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| I think it's fair to acknowledge that lyrics that meant one thing to an audience at the time a song was written and originally performed may mean something very different in a different time. This song may have been entirely innocent in the 1940's, but still now will sound icky to 21st Century ears. The incredible specificity in the lyric "What's in this drink?" and how perfectly it makes the song track with contemporary reports of sexual abuse and rape always strikes me as incredible (even though I know it was a popular phrase of the time). Its hard for some to fathom that 1) the song is actually 70+ years old and 2) Loesser could have meant anything else other than what that phrase now connotes. |
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| "Does this 'Bacardi' have alcohol in it?" | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 04:33 pm EST 12/20/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - JereNYC 04:30 pm EST 12/20/17 | |
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| "Only enough to act as a preservative." | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: twocents 11:12 am EST 12/20/17 | |
| In reply to: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| HuffPost is Clickbait HQ. | |
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| Thanks for ruining about the only holiday song i like | |
| Posted by: dramedy 01:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| I really like the liza and alan cummings version. And since he is gay, its just like another boyfriend of liza! | |
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| re: Thanks for ruining about the only holiday song i like | |
| Posted by: twocents 11:15 am EST 12/20/17 | |
| In reply to: Thanks for ruining about the only holiday song i like - dramedy 01:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Poor woman. Married and divorced four times. On the plus side, relationships with Rock Brynner (Yul fils), Desi Arnaz, Jr., Peter Sellers, and Martin Scorsese. Boring she isn't! |
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| Uh, again? | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 11:22 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Look, it's open to interpretation. I like the song, but I don't begrudge those who find the sentiments expressed in the lyrics suspect. Either way, people are surely capable of making up their own minds. | |
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| re: Uh, again? | |
| Posted by: Ncassidine 11:47 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: Uh, again? - MockingbirdGirl 11:22 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Agreed, this is a problematic post that we don't need again. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:10 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Let's start at the very beginning (a very good place to start). "Seasonal scumbags?" Actually, it's one of many appropriated "seasonal" songs (and by that we know we mean the HOLIDAY season) that managed to get its musical foot in the holiday door merely by the mention of the word "cold." So, I think it's kind of funny that this argument always appears at this "most wonderful time of the year," lol, when the song really has absolutely nothing to do with the holiday season at all. (And for the record, I think it's a marvelous song, and should stay just as it is. I don't find it offensive at the least. People are reading way too much into it.) Now, if we really want to complain about a seasonal lyric, how about this one? "Have a holly jolly Christmas, And in case you didn't hear, Oh, by golly, have a holly jolly Christmas this year." IN CASE YOU DIDN'T HEAR?? Really? When the "holly jolly" line has been sung at us a number of times in the song already? ;-) (I have to imagine that this was a so-called "dummy lyric" - something written for the time being but meant to be revised - only that it never was.) |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: twocents 11:24 am EST 12/20/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| I don't find it offensive at the least. People are reading way too much into it. Agreed! I didn't read the issue at all. But it seems like mole hill to mountain! |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: LynnB 04:37 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| "(And for the record, I think it's a marvelous song, and should stay just as it is. I don't find it offensive at the least. People are reading way too much into it.)" Totally agree with you, Chromolume! 'Baby, it's cold outside' is a wonderful song. |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: Chatty2007 02:07 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Does anybody remember Miss Piggy singing this with, I believe, Rudolf Nureyev on The Muppet Show? I think they were in a sauna. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 02:14 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chatty2007 02:07 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Link | YouTube remembers everything |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 11:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:24 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| One of my pet peeves is with "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer", although I do on the whole like the song and the famous tv special. I hate that after all the abuse and marginalizing the other reindeer put Rudolph through for most of his life, that once Rudolph helps out Santa that Christmas Eve that "then how the reindeer loved him". I mean, "then?" they loved him? They couldn't appreciate him like his little girlfriend Clarice or the elf or wanted to be a dentist? Maybe there's something to be said about forgiveness, but in a short song, it strikes me that those reindeer are just piling on the Rudolph bandwagon like hangers-on to someone who won the lottery or became a sudden celebirity. That offends me more than anything in "Baby, It's Cold Outside" -- and yes, nobody seems to mention the hilarious 2nd part of the original context where Betty Garrett is man-hungry and pursuing Red Skelton. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:01 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 11:24 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Love this! ;-) Though I do assume you know that the story created for the now-classic Rankin/Bass TV special has nothing to do with the original idea for Rudolph (or for the song, written 15 years earlier, but a decade after the character had been created). No dentist elves, no Clarise, no Abominable Snow Monster, etc. Not even a Charlie-In-The-Box. ;-) |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: garyd 02:57 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 12:01 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| True. Poor Rudolph was originally an alcoholic. I still have my mother's coloring book. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:07 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 12:01 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| I don't know the original story, but just the song alone when I hear it now bugs me when I hear the lines "wouldn't let him join in all the reindeer games" and later "then how the reindeer loved him!" Grrrrr! I do love the melody and have warm and fuzzy memories of the tv show (just watched it again recently), but I almost always think when I hear the song, "Then? Then all the reindeer loved him? WTF? Where were you before he led the f'n sleigh for Santa, bitches!" | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:26 am EST 12/21/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Frankly, I've always wondered what kind of ''games'' reindeer play: Pin the tail on the reindeer? ;) | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: cinderonbroadway 01:11 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| This has to be the best thread ever! | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:40 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| What you're reacting to has been part of the story from the very beginning. I've always had a similar reaction to someone being bullied and teased and then suddenly being loved because s/he turns out to be able to help other people through his/her deformity or flaw, or whatever word you want to use for it. I guess maybe the overall point is that sort of thing is a part of human nature. I too love the classic stop-motion animated TV movie -- but if anything, of course, the bullying and ostracizing of Rudolph is made far more explicit in that version than in the song. So I guess the short answer to your point is that the Rudolph story is beloved partly because it's so true to life, including the darker, less admirable aspects of human relations. (Interesting also that it's told through the animal kingdom. We know humans sometimes behave this way, but I don't believe animals do!) |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:55 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:50 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Michael_Portantiere 12:40 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Actually in the animal world there are mothers who reject their off-spring as well as herds (or whatever term for that particular animal group) who sometimes reject and shun some member. Some animal rescue groups have played the role of surrogate mothers or try to find another animal (sometimes of another species!) who will adopt/mother that young animal. However, I don't know what causes these animals to reject one of their own. I appreciate your support of my post though. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: bearcat 12:00 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 11:24 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| "won't you guide my sleigh tonight?" this insidiously inculcates the American idea that you are not worthy of affirmation unless you are productive and serve a larger corporate (or here, even non-profit) end furthermore, RtRNR posits that is is fine to deride those of non-standard facial features until these features become useful to the status quo |
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