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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:10 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - WaymanWong 10:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Let's start at the very beginning (a very good place to start). "Seasonal scumbags?" Actually, it's one of many appropriated "seasonal" songs (and by that we know we mean the HOLIDAY season) that managed to get its musical foot in the holiday door merely by the mention of the word "cold." So, I think it's kind of funny that this argument always appears at this "most wonderful time of the year," lol, when the song really has absolutely nothing to do with the holiday season at all. (And for the record, I think it's a marvelous song, and should stay just as it is. I don't find it offensive at the least. People are reading way too much into it.) Now, if we really want to complain about a seasonal lyric, how about this one? "Have a holly jolly Christmas, And in case you didn't hear, Oh, by golly, have a holly jolly Christmas this year." IN CASE YOU DIDN'T HEAR?? Really? When the "holly jolly" line has been sung at us a number of times in the song already? ;-) (I have to imagine that this was a so-called "dummy lyric" - something written for the time being but meant to be revised - only that it never was.) |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: twocents 11:24 am EST 12/20/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| I don't find it offensive at the least. People are reading way too much into it. Agreed! I didn't read the issue at all. But it seems like mole hill to mountain! |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: LynnB 04:37 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| "(And for the record, I think it's a marvelous song, and should stay just as it is. I don't find it offensive at the least. People are reading way too much into it.)" Totally agree with you, Chromolume! 'Baby, it's cold outside' is a wonderful song. |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: Chatty2007 02:07 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Does anybody remember Miss Piggy singing this with, I believe, Rudolf Nureyev on The Muppet Show? I think they were in a sauna. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 02:14 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chatty2007 02:07 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Link | YouTube remembers everything |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 11:35 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:24 am EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 11:06 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| One of my pet peeves is with "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer", although I do on the whole like the song and the famous tv special. I hate that after all the abuse and marginalizing the other reindeer put Rudolph through for most of his life, that once Rudolph helps out Santa that Christmas Eve that "then how the reindeer loved him". I mean, "then?" they loved him? They couldn't appreciate him like his little girlfriend Clarice or the elf or wanted to be a dentist? Maybe there's something to be said about forgiveness, but in a short song, it strikes me that those reindeer are just piling on the Rudolph bandwagon like hangers-on to someone who won the lottery or became a sudden celebirity. That offends me more than anything in "Baby, It's Cold Outside" -- and yes, nobody seems to mention the hilarious 2nd part of the original context where Betty Garrett is man-hungry and pursuing Red Skelton. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:01 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 11:24 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Love this! ;-) Though I do assume you know that the story created for the now-classic Rankin/Bass TV special has nothing to do with the original idea for Rudolph (or for the song, written 15 years earlier, but a decade after the character had been created). No dentist elves, no Clarise, no Abominable Snow Monster, etc. Not even a Charlie-In-The-Box. ;-) |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: garyd 02:57 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 12:01 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| True. Poor Rudolph was originally an alcoholic. I still have my mother's coloring book. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:07 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Chromolume 12:01 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| I don't know the original story, but just the song alone when I hear it now bugs me when I hear the lines "wouldn't let him join in all the reindeer games" and later "then how the reindeer loved him!" Grrrrr! I do love the melody and have warm and fuzzy memories of the tv show (just watched it again recently), but I almost always think when I hear the song, "Then? Then all the reindeer loved him? WTF? Where were you before he led the f'n sleigh for Santa, bitches!" | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:26 am EST 12/21/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Frankly, I've always wondered what kind of ''games'' reindeer play: Pin the tail on the reindeer? ;) | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: cinderonbroadway 01:11 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| This has to be the best thread ever! | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:40 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 12:06 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| What you're reacting to has been part of the story from the very beginning. I've always had a similar reaction to someone being bullied and teased and then suddenly being loved because s/he turns out to be able to help other people through his/her deformity or flaw, or whatever word you want to use for it. I guess maybe the overall point is that sort of thing is a part of human nature. I too love the classic stop-motion animated TV movie -- but if anything, of course, the bullying and ostracizing of Rudolph is made far more explicit in that version than in the song. So I guess the short answer to your point is that the Rudolph story is beloved partly because it's so true to life, including the darker, less admirable aspects of human relations. (Interesting also that it's told through the animal kingdom. We know humans sometimes behave this way, but I don't believe animals do!) |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:55 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:50 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - Michael_Portantiere 12:40 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
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| Actually in the animal world there are mothers who reject their off-spring as well as herds (or whatever term for that particular animal group) who sometimes reject and shun some member. Some animal rescue groups have played the role of surrogate mothers or try to find another animal (sometimes of another species!) who will adopt/mother that young animal. However, I don't know what causes these animals to reject one of their own. I appreciate your support of my post though. | |
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| re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? | |
| Posted by: bearcat 12:00 pm EST 12/19/17 | |
| In reply to: re: 'Baby, It's Cold Outside': Holiday tradition or date-rape anthem? - PlayWiz 11:24 am EST 12/19/17 | |
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| "won't you guide my sleigh tonight?" this insidiously inculcates the American idea that you are not worthy of affirmation unless you are productive and serve a larger corporate (or here, even non-profit) end furthermore, RtRNR posits that is is fine to deride those of non-standard facial features until these features become useful to the status quo |
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