Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: Oldvirgil1 12:31 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| So....let me preface this post and say that I HAVEN'T seen OOTI, nor do I personally know Alex Newell. OOTI and it's actors have been getting a lot of buzz for the performances delivered 8 times a week at Circle. And I've been thinking about something for a while now with already seeing award season predictions and buzz: 1. I can only think of ONE other time that a revival had the same role played by an opposite gender (This revival has Newell and Dandridge playing roles previously performed by a different gender....as did 2013's Patina Miller in Pippin). Question: Aside from Newell, Dandridge, and Miller, has this happened before? If so, when? 2. Something a little more touchy, with which I'm trying to be sensitive: I recently read an interview that New York Theatre Guide did with Alex in which he talked briefly about the gender-fluidity of his and Mere's roles, specifically how we necessarily don't know if God/Gods have gender, or what that even means. This leads me to.... Should Alex's performance be worthy of a nomination and/or award this season (as I'm sure it is), will it be a Featured Actress or Featured Actor nomination? Assuming that most of Alex's interviews say "He", I assume it will be "Best Featured Actor". I assume interviewers would ask which pronoun Alex prefers. But...does it matter? I do not know Alex, and I'm not delving into his life, AND I'm not even asking for an answer to THAT question. BUT this does bring a more important question to mind: Is this something that the Tony Nomination committee would discuss? Is this something they HAVE discussed? Don't they usually only specifically discuss Lead roles and just lump everything else as "according to billing". With the increasing presence of the LGBT+ community on Off-Broadway and Broadway stages, how/where/in what ways do we give our non-binary gender performers comfort and correct recognition? We have always recognized performers based off of their gender perceived, but what if what we perceive is incorrect? Thanks for input and answers |
|
| reply to this message |
| Not really an answer to your questions... | |
| Posted by: NoticeMeGertrude 10:08 pm EST 01/11/18 | |
| In reply to: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - Oldvirgil1 12:31 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| ...but I saw OOTI yesterday afternoon, and I completely forgot that Alex was playing Asaka. If I didn't actually know better, I would say that role is played by a woman. I suspect a lot of the audience is never aware of Alex's gender. I haven't seen Merle, but I thought Tamyra Gray was fantastic as Papa Ge. She is clearly playing the role as a female, but with a lot of what we would traditionally observe as masculinity. Totally worked for the character. It will be interesting to see how Merle's interpretation differs, considering she's a lot taller and robust than Tamyra. |
|
| reply to this message |
| Harvey Fierstein as Edna Turnblad / Justin Vivian Bond | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 02:19 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - Oldvirgil1 12:31 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| HAIRSPRAY wasn't a revival, but there have been a decent number of nominated performances where actors or actresses performed roles of different genders. Obviously Mr. Fierstein's Edna comes to mind right away, along with the gender-doubling that happens throughout ANGELS IN AMERICA, Jefferson May's roles in GENTLEMAN'S GUIDE, Lena Hall in HEDWIG, just to name a few recent examples... My guess is that the Tony Committee follows guidelines based on the categories where the performers are submitted for consideration. Although Alex Newell is not trans, if he were, I'm sure ONCE ON THIS ISLAND could submit Alex within the gender categories of their choice. The Tony Committee has clearly thought about this before. KIKI AND HERB: ALIVE ON BROADWAY was nominated for a "special event" Tony in 2007; Justin Vivian Bond uses gender-inclusive pronouns and the honorific Mx, and had Mx Bond been nominated for a performance, the questions would have arisen then... - GMB |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: mikem 10:10 am EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - Oldvirgil1 12:31 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| Although Alex Newell rose to fame playing a trans character on Glee, he has said in interviews that he does not identify personally as trans. So the question wouldn't apply to him specifically, but it seems that it's just a matter of time before it comes up with someone else. I'm wondering if acting awards will eventually stop being separated by sex. A while back, the Grammys combined their male and female categories into a single "solo performance" category (for a different reason). Of course, halving the number of acting award recipients probably wouldn't be popular for many reasons, but it probably will happen at some point. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| if we stop categorizing by gender... | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 11:25 am EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - mikem 10:10 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| Unfortunately with awards we have to categorize in some ways. With gender categories it may become harder - if the actor is Non-binary, or/also if the role is. I think perhaps a better category is the type of performance... i.e. Best Performance in a Comedy / Drama (or Best Comedic / Dramatic Performance). But then what about all the roles/shows that don't qualify neatly as comedy or drama or whichever genre. And that makes a lot of sense in general, because it's hard to ask comedic performances and dramatic ones to compete against each other. And miscategorizing and unfair competition in genre categories is nothing new, we see it every year especially in the Golden Globes and Emmys. What I'd hate to see is for them to lose the categorizing but then half as many actors get to be nominated. I also think if 10 actors are nominated in the same category it could really dilute what that means and the kind of light it shines on each of them. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| We are five minutes away from... | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 02:08 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: if we stop categorizing by gender... - Chazwaza 11:25 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| ... a non-binary or genderless character being played by a non-binary or genderless performer, yet clearly being an awards-worthy performance. My guess is that it'll happen in TV or Film before it happens onstage. Oddly enough, in this 'golden age' of Television, it's the theater that's becoming a bit retrograde & traditional. Personally, I think it'd be perfectly do-able for us to evaluate actors simply by the performance, without requiring gender categories. - GMB |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: We are five minutes away from... | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 02:13 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: We are five minutes away from... - GrumpyMorningBoy 02:08 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| I don't know if the show will ever come to fruition, but if we ever get Justin Vivian Bond playing Anna Madrigal in Tales of the City, that would be one to watch. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: We are five minutes away from... | |
| Posted by: gcarl44 07:15 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: We are five minutes away from... - EvFoDr 02:13 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| Yes, please! | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: carolinaguy 10:59 am EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - mikem 10:10 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| I've often wondered about this. There is no difference between male acting and female acting. We certainly don't separate other categories, such as direction and writing, by gender. (Though doing so would certainly point up the inequality in opportunities in those areas for women in a definitive way.) Playing this out is kind of a fun mental exercise. We could double the number of nominees in an acting category and not divide by gender, but imagine the outcry if males happened to win several years in a row. It makes for an interesting discussion on past races--would Bette Midler or Ben Platt have won? Emma Stone or Casey Affleck? Len Cariou or Angela Lansbury? James Gandolfini or Edie Falco? And so forth. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: ntjvy 12:21 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - carolinaguy 10:59 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| I've often thought that the categorization was necessary because of the difference in the types of roles available to men and women. Although I think we're making progress, there's still a ways to go and until female roles are written with as much depth for actors to dig into as male roles are, eliminating categories could be tricky business. I do see the trick this presents in forcing nominees to define themselves in binary terms, however. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:39 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - ntjvy 12:21 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| "There's still a ways to go and until female roles are written with as much depth for actors to dig into as male roles are." Do you honestly feel that, generally speaking, female roles are not (and have not been) written with as much depth as male roles? I've occasionally heard other people express this opinion, but I imagine there must be a huge amount of disagreement on this point. At any rate, the question of how gender is going to be handled in awards presentations in the future is a fascinating one. Probably the easiest solution, as others have mentioned, would be to simply halve the number of awards given out in the categories that were previously separated according to the male or female genders. But I don't think that's ever gonna happen, and if it did, it would have its own potential problems and controversies. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: ntjvy 02:03 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - Michael_Portantiere 01:39 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| Yes. I do honestly think that, it’s why I said it. There are of course solid roles written for female characters, but I think that generally speaking we still see far more meaty roles for men in both theater and film. More so in film, but still I think it’s an issue for us too. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:27 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - ntjvy 02:03 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| "Yes. I do honestly think that, it’s why I said it. There are of course solid roles written for female characters, but I think that generally speaking we still see far more meaty roles for men in both theater and film. More so in film, but still I think it’s an issue for us too." Thanks for clarifying. For what it's worth, I strongly disagree. There are SO MANY great women's roles in all genres of theater, dating back hundreds of years, that it never entered my mind to think there was any gender imbalance worth mentioning in terms of the quality or "meatiness" or male vs. female roles. By the way, would you say this is even true of the American musical theater, from the beginning to the present? If yes, again, I just don't see it. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 02:12 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - ntjvy 02:03 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| Strictly in terms of musical theatre, I think women certainly rule the day. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: dlevy 10:00 am EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - Oldvirgil1 12:31 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| I can't speak to #2, but a fewof other cross-gender roles I can think of are when Mary Tyler Moore took over the lead in "Whose Life Is It Anyway" (and won a special Tony Award for her performance) and when Lea DeLaria played Eddie/Doctor Scott in The Rocky Horror Show, and when she Marryin' Sam in the Encores! production of Li'l Abner. Whoopi Goldberg played Psuedolus in the 90s revival of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum on Broadway. More recently, Helen Hunt played the Stage Manager in Our Town off-Broadway. I'm sure there are others. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Posted by: jurinac 12:26 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - dlevy 10:00 am EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| A quibble, perhaps -- but when Mary Tyler Moore did WHOSE LIFE IS IT ANYWAY? and Helen Hunt did OUR TOWN, they played those roles as women. This is perhaps closest to what Merle Dandridge has been doing as Papa Ge in ONCE ON THIS ISLAND -- she looks her female self, and "Papa" just sounds like part of her name. (Also, on IBDB, at least, she's called "Demon of Death," while Salonga's Erzulie is called "Goddess of Love" and Newell's Asaka is called "Mother of the Earth.") I didn't see the other performances you mention (DeLaria in ROCKY HORROR and LI'L ABNER, Goldberg in FORUM), but it's my understanding that in those cases the genital females were costumed and directed to read either as genitally male or neutral. That's closer to what Alex Newell's doing in ISLAND. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions | |
| Last Edit: JereNYC 12:55 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 12:54 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alex Newell in OOTI...curious, yet sensitive questions - jurinac 12:26 pm EST 01/09/18 | |
|
|
|
| Goldberg's Pseudolus was definitely female, even without changing the name, and even ended up with Miles Gloriosus at the end, but DeLaria did play Eddie, Dr. Scott, and Marryin' Sam as men. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.054459 seconds.