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| ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 09:58 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| I remember seeing the 1990 production and finding it amiable. I pondered then on the fact that the first song or so had 'an island' beat - but that after that we were hearing ordinary Broadway pop with an occasional 'island beat' stuck on the top. Seeing the revival, I had a lot of other thoughts. Norm Lewis, a Broadway stalwart, has joined the company. In this show, norm looks a lot like your friendly G.P. who has bought a Broadway Fantasy Camp prize an has been stuck in a show for a night. He looks very out of place and uncomfy in his 'Island Garb'. But the show. Its never been a very distinguished score, but I had memories of a gentle fable. Wrong. In order to comfort a young girl who has heard a thunder clap - this is obviously the first storm that has ever been on the unidentified island - they tell her a story of a young woman whose life is saved by the island gods (mumbo jumbo). This girl sees a wealthy light skinned stud once, for about ten seconds, and is in love. She helps him survive a car accident. She throws herself at him, she will save him, by among other things jumping into his bed. What a surprise. He responds. Attractive young woman in his bed. Then at a big dance amongst the wealthy, after the 'natives' do their 'native dance' to great applause, we find that the young light skinned wealthy stud who she fell in love with in ten seconds, never having spoken to him that I recall, is actually engaged. He would never marry a peasant like her. Oh my, her heart is broken by being rejected by this dick - which everyone arond her had warned her of at great legnth. So she hangs out in heat and cold and rain and whatever outside the gates of the 5 Star Hotel where light sklnned boy is staying (living? why is he still there?) - he comes out with his bride to be and tosses coins at the peasants. Ti Moun (pronounces Tee Moon) promptly dies. We are then told that Ti Moun's death proves that Love Conquers Death!!! Woo Hoo!!! Happy Ending!!! - But wait a minute - Ti Moun is dead. Her 'love' has married someone else and never gave a flying you know what about her. How could love have conquered Death? Oh, I get it. The gods have turned her into a tree. That makes everything OK. What a great story to tell a scared little girl. At the end of the day, is a bunch of white people writing a not very compelling story about 'island people' code for black people, and letting them dance happily for us as island people always do. Even though a wicked light (not white) boy breaks her heart. Its interesting that a show that Frank Rich loved in 1990 with a cast of 11, now has a cast of 18, plus a chicken and a goat. I get that its a fairy tale, and that its based on a novel by a Trinidadian/American. The plot of the novel seems to me to show the problems (for me) with the musical. In the novel, the light skinned boy is destined to be King of the Island - for real. The novel is an actual fairy tale, with all the accoutrements of a fairy tale. Guy's 1985 novel, My Love, My Love: Or, The Peasant Girl, has been described as a Caribbean re-telling of Hans Christian Andersen's "The Little Mermaid"[8] "with a dash of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet."[9] In the tale, Desiree is a beautiful peasant who falls in love with a handsome upperclass boy whom she saved in an accident. Regrettably, his family does not approve of Desiree, for she is too black and too poor for their son who will be king. Concepts of sacrifice and pure love reign throughout the novel. We hear always of the great crush of shows trying to get Broadway Theatres. This season 1984, Parisian Woman, Once on This Island, M Butterfly have all gotten theatres for mysterious reasons. The sad one would be that there wasn't anything better out there. I know many of you have loved this production, and good on you. I want to love every show I see. Above are my reactions, my opinions. Take them as that. |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 11:01 am EST 01/14/18 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 11:00 am EST 01/14/18 | |
| In reply to: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 09:58 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| NewtonUK, I have certainly earned my screenname here with more than one deeply critical rant about shows... although I tend to be most critical of new works... I do think that some of your distaste directly stems from issues that are intrinsic to this piece. And... I'm willing to say that they're vital to understanding the power of this particular story, and why its resonance can (and should) make us think about the far deeper victimization of black populations on islands that were colonized by the Europeans. Ultimately, TiMoune's self-sacrificing death, which cracks the gates of the Hotel Beauxhomme, leads to deeper intermixing of the light and dark skinned population. It ultimately argues that this love -- intermarrying -- is what brought a kind of reconciliation between the haves and the have nots. I think that's a powerful message. And, I think it's true. Whether or not this production's final tableau and images communicate this message, was, for me, one of the only flaws in a production I found absolutely transporting. - GMB |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 12:05 pm EST 01/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - GrumpyMorningBoy 11:00 am EST 01/14/18 | |
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| Hi Grumpy M B! I'm trying to understand, truly - I know many have loved this production - though the Word of Mouth isnt driving ticket sales yet, which usually means they don't really 'love' it - they like it a lot, but .. What I can't figure out - and I downloaded the libretto so I could look and see what I might have missed - is why this story can be compelling. Ti Moun sees Daniel drive by twice in his expensive car, and she decides she is in love. Then the 'gods' cause his car to crash (thanks gods) so Ti Moun can meet him up close, and save his life. Fair enough. But can this be the great love of her life forever? I mean, Daniel is a shit, is already engaged, and has not even a glimmer of a moment of thinking Ti Moun is a better truer option. So - dark skinned girl falls for light skinned shit, he dumps her, she basically commits suicide pining for him. What the heck are all those singing gods doing? If they 'are' gods, they have set her up to fall in love with the wrong guy, and they cause her suicide. After 'gods' save the young girl from a flood at the beginning of the show, why would the 'gods' play such a horrible trick on Ti Moun? And not rescue her - or say 'oops, our mistake, we put an asshole in front of you. Walk away. We'll help find you a good guy!' SO she's turned into a tree. I know this is supposedly based on The Little Mermaid - by way of Rosa Guy's novel. But just as Disney destroyed the story by rewriting it to suit 'family values', so the musical (perhaps following the novel) changes important elements too. The Prince in LM is in love with a Temple Dancer who saves his life. That turns out to be the Princess he marries, not the Little Mermaid. So he marries the Princess - but LM is saved by becomein ga spirit of the air, to do good for 300 years, and then will rise to the Kingdom of God. And of course, in order to try to woo the handsome Prince she has seen, the LM's trade off is to become human, but also mute. Here there's no trade off. She is ultimately allowed to go to the young light skinned guy, against everyone's better judgment. They are worried it will turn out badly. And it does. When Daniel turns out to be a dick - and a big one - why doesn't here family, friends, and the gods take her in their arms til she gets over it, and they all move on. There seem to be at least 4 gods in Once On This Island. For gods sake, one of them has to help her. Rather than let her waste away and die and become a tree. I don't see a call for racial tolerance or anything else in the story. Daniel is already in love with Andrea. He toys with Ti Moun. But is never serious about her. I don't see this as a race thing - Andrea was about as dark as Ti Moun. Only Daniel was light skinned. What am I missing? I LOVE a good fairy tale. Last season I saw Kneehigh's 946: The AMazing Story of Adolphus Tips - what a wonderful moving experience. With many fairy tale elements. I laughed, I cried. I saw it 3 times. So - where is the page in teh script that makes me feel something in OOTI? I know you and others have found it! |
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| re: PS - Ti Moun in Haitian Creole | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 12:17 pm EST 01/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 12:05 pm EST 01/16/18 | |
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| Having worked in Haiti, I reached out to friends there ... Ti Moun in Haitian Creole means literally 'small person' or 'child'. An orphan is "on ofelen" Maybe Ti Moun means orphan an another island, though Once on This Island seems to have Haiti on its mind. |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (but I saw it twice) NMI | |
| Posted by: broadwaymyway 12:57 am EST 01/14/18 | |
| In reply to: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 09:58 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| ;-) | |
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| Why see the revival if you didnt like the original production very much? | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:23 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 09:58 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| Your lengthy critism is mostly based on the story and songs which havent changed and not really what is different about this revival and the original--the unique staging that i found brought the story closer to the audience emotionally. There are plenty of shows i didnt like the first time and i wouldnt bother to see a revival. If one didn't csre for the orignial, this production won't change that opinion. | |
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| re: Why see the revival if you didnt like the original production very much? | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 01:17 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: Why see the revival if you didnt like the original production very much? - dramedy 12:23 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| I see everything. I disliked the original production of COLOR PURPLE. I thought it was the show. I loved the John Doyle revival. Turned out the production was the problem (for me) not the show. Same with LEGALLY BLONDE which I disliked on Broadway, loved in the West End. I was also curious re Michael Arden's work - I was not a fan of his SPRING AWAKENING, nor was I a fan of his work on ONCE ON THIS ISLAND. Its important to see everyone's work, and be open to have one's opinion change overnight. As mine often does. |
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| re: Why see the revival if you didnt like the original production very much? | |
| Posted by: gcarl44 06:47 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Why see the revival if you didnt like the original production very much? - NewtonUK 01:17 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| "I was also curious re Michael Arden's work - I was not a fan of his SPRING AWAKENING," Actually, I was not a fan of the original Spring Awakening, but I loved Arden's version. |
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| re: "I disliked the original production of COLOR PURPLE. I thought it was the show. I loved the John Doyle revival" | |
| Posted by: Dale 05:55 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Why see the revival if you didnt like the original production very much? - NewtonUK 01:17 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| I DID AS WELL!!! And it was nice being surprised!! I also see everything but this season will pass on a few titles... |
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| I doubt thst i will like the revival of Hamilton in 2052 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 01:26 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Why see the revival if you didnt like the original production very much? - NewtonUK 01:17 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| Reimagined as a space odyssey | |
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| Oh, I dunno | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 02:36 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 02:26 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: I doubt thst i will like the revival of Hamilton in 2052 - dramedy 01:26 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| Forbidden Planet did a pretty good job of reimagining its source material as a space odyssey. ;) Scrappy immigrants breaking away from Earth and terraforming a new planet... it could work. |
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| re: Oh, I dunno | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:53 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: Oh, I dunno - MockingbirdGirl 02:26 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| A recent Paris Opera production of La Boheme was literally set on the moon, space suits and all. Looked downright ugly to me. | |
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| re: Oh, I dunno | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:17 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, I dunno - Chromolume 10:53 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| I watched it. Here is an excerpt if anyone wants to judge for themselves. It sounds good :-) |
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| Link | excerpt |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: dooey 11:02 am EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 09:58 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| "Hotel" doesn't mean what you think it does. In French a hotel refers to a large estate. If something isn't quite making sense to you, maybe you should look it up before posting a ridiculous criticism of it. | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 01:47 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - dooey 11:02 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| Not sure what was ridiculous about my comment. Whether the Hotel Beauxhommes was a Hotel in the US sense (and French), or an Hotel particulier (a large townhouse) or Hotel as estate of a wealthy family - the point is the same. In one sense, her sneaking into a private home, large estate or not, to take care of Daniel is even more ludicrous than if she snuck into a 5 star hotel and his hotel room. In the study guide for this production, and in all synopses i have found of this show, the refer constantly to the Ball at the hotel - which is generic hotel meaning what we think a hotel is. The musical is written in English for an American audience - I think if were rto expect 'hotel' to mean a family estate rather than a hotel, perhaps the writers would have clarified that. And they, indeed, might have - except my companion and I could barely make out 50% of the text as spoken and sung. But looking in the libretto - they talk about going to the 'hotel' on the other side of the island - and when Ti Moune arrives at the Gates? "At last, still wearing her painful new city shoes, Ti Moune arrived at the gates of the Hotel Beauxhomme. But the fierce guard at the gate saw that Ti Moune had nothing to sell to the tourists." Tourists. Because the Hotel Beauxhomme is a Hotel where tourists stay - even if it once was the family home. Next? |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Last Edit: dooey 02:48 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| Posted by: dooey 02:47 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 01:47 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: dooey 02:46 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 01:47 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| "So she hangs out in heat and cold and rain and whatever outside the gates of the 5 Star Hotel where light sklnned boy is staying (living? why is he still there?) - he comes out with his bride to be and tosses coins at the peasants. Ti Moun (pronounces Tee Moon) promptly dies." You seem to ridicule nearly everything about the show, even how "Ti Moun" [SIC] is pronounced. You even flippantly referred to it as a "5 Star Hotel." You seemed to be wondering why Daniel was "staying (living?)" there still, so I was just trying to let you know that your understanding of the term "hotel" is incorrect. I'm telling you, there is no Ritz Carlton in this story. Even the wedding is at the estate. And, yes, there would be tourists around the Beauxhommes' estate just as there would be tourists around any other large, gated estate of wealthy people akin to a royal family, especially if Daniel and Andrea are to make their first public appearance as a married couple. As for the authors explaining the meaning of a word...I had no issue with the use of the word "hotel." I just sort of figured it out because the characters use lots of French phrases and pronunciations. Plus, I trust that the authors probably know the material better than I do. Of course, it would not make sense for any of this to take place in a "5 Star Hotel," so for you to criticize points of the show based on misinformation seemed ridiculous to me. Could I have worded it in a nicer way? Yes. Sorry for that. Sorry, also that you had so many problems with the show. I adore ONCE ON THIS ISLAND and think it's a beautifully crafted piece of musical theater. |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 07:03 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - dooey 02:46 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| Hi = I still believe you are wrong about hotel - which would be capitalized if it was a great house. Why would the guardian of the gate send Ti Moun away because she had no souvenirs to sell, when she is trying to come in? If she had souvenirs she would be let in. If its a great estate, this doesn't make any sense. The Beaxhomme parents hate peasants in any variety. I stand by the text of the show. Its a hotel, like a hotel. There were - may still be - some beautiful hotels in Haiti. Actual hotels. Not French Hotels as in great family estates. |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:57 am EST 01/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 07:03 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| The name is Ti Moune. I think you're making a point of consistently spelling it wrong, and I don't know why. (It's also Beauxhomme, not Beaxhomme, but you haven't always missed that one, lol.) The story is presented as a folk tale, told to "one small girl." I think if you tried to over-analyze the majority of the world's folk/fairy tales, you'd hit the same kinds of problems, hotels or not. ;-) |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:21 pm EST 01/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - Chromolume 11:57 am EST 01/15/18 | |
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| this squabble about hotels underscores the universality of certain notions, the language notwithstanding. If this is one's takeaway from the show, one is interested in one's own putative cleverness and not what one would think a person has paid money to experience. "c'est l'arbre qui cache la forêt" |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 03:44 pm EST 01/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - ryhog 01:21 pm EST 01/15/18 | |
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| Not really. The 'hotel' issue was an odd sidebar, as the text of the show is very clear in the sense of 'hotel' where one accomodates tourists. Just as when Rigoletto opens the bag and find the body of his dead daughter, the text and stage directions says this seen is done in moonlight - which in John Dexter's old Met production was done in Bright sunlight. Which made hash of the whole scene. Maybe rewrite the text first. And fairy tales/folk tales have great internal logic. Thats why the last 100s of years |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 02:41 pm EST 01/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - ryhog 01:21 pm EST 01/15/18 | |
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| To reference a recent conversation out here, I suppose it's like going to Follies and, when asked what you thought, the first response is "who on earth ever uses the word 'avers'??" ;-) | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 03:47 pm EST 01/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - Chromolume 02:41 pm EST 01/15/18 | |
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| to me this is worse. Of course "avers" is not a word to which I am averse. :-) | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: dooey 09:51 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 07:03 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| It would only be capitalized if used as a proper noun--just like the word "school." Example: He attends Oak Street School. (Capitalized--proper noun) He attends the school on Oak Street. (Not capitalized, but it's the same building!) But if you maintain that the Beauxhommes live at a hotel a la Eloise and the late great Ms. Stritch, that's your prerogative. |
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| re: OK, Dooey - how about this, then ... | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 09:09 am EST 01/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - dooey 09:51 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| ... I know I get a lot of push back on ATC, especially when I shyly suggest that the answers to most questions are in the text. On page 5 of my online libretto of ONCE ON THIS ISLAND, Andrea sings as follows: On the other side of this island, safe behind high walls and iron gates, the grands hommes dance to a different tune. ALL (BUT ANDREA AND DANIEL) LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA DANIEL They drink champagne. Entertain tourists at their fine hotels. And tell their servants, “Polish up the Mercedes!” Hotels. Plural. Not mansions, Hotels. Tourists. |
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| re: OK, Dooey - how about this, then ... | |
| Posted by: dooey 10:43 pm EST 01/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: OK, Dooey - how about this, then ... - NewtonUK 09:09 am EST 01/14/18 | |
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| Mon Dieu. This like arguing with a Trump supporter. It's a cultural difference, NewtonUK. But if you're determined to believe that the Beauxhommes were staying at the Hilton, be my guest. Again, sorry you didn't enjoy this wonderful show more. |
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| re: OK, Dooey - how about this, then ... | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 07:05 pm EST 01/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: OK, Dooey - how about this, then ... - NewtonUK 09:09 am EST 01/14/18 | |
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| I say it's spinach and I say the hell with it! (Apologies to Mr. Thurber.) | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:00 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - dooey 02:46 pm EST 01/13/18 | |
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| Apropos of your frustration, I had a very similar dustup below regarding Farinelli. I don't think any of us are totally immune to this, but when we really don't like something, we can't resist ripping it apart willy nilly. even the parts that are not broken. | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:18 am EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 09:58 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| Setting aside your (honest) take on the show, I don't think there is any mystery about why the other 3 shows you lump with this got real estate. All arrived with some combination of pedigree, stars, proprietary interest, etc. Re OOTI, and Circle, the bottom line is that (a) it is a tough venue to book because of both physical and financial (rehearsed in my earlier post) challenges to a producer and (b) the process that animates decisions at Circle is sui generis on Broadway. | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: lonlad 10:14 am EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - NewtonUK 09:58 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| What a shame you responded as you did but fair enough. For my part, this was that rare revival that improved on the fatally twee and undernourished original; the last time I felt that was the Michael Arden-directed Spring Awakening, so he's batting two for two, in my view at least. | |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 10:33 am EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - lonlad 10:14 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| The test for me is when I see an amateur production--it often gets to whether I think the script/score has merit on its own (assuming the production is reasonably competent and not dependent on a star). OOTI was one of my talented undergrad's favorite show and he directed it as a senior project. Perfectly fine in terms of staging, musicianship, and acting, but the story appalled me (and I love fairy tales), its cultural stuff made me a bit uneasy (not the light vs. dark skinned element--that is a reality of some cultures, I know), and I found the score had a couple of catchy songs (Mama Will Provide, We Dance), but the whole thing seemed one step from The Small House of Uncle Thomas, which at least was devised in the 1950s. I've thought of giving this revival a chance to change my mind, since the reviews and board response has been so enthusiastic, but I'm no longer sure. And, no, I've never been a big fan of The Little Mermaid in any of its forms. The Love over Death thing just doesn't convince me. |
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| re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 10:49 am EST 01/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was enough (spoilers, I guess) - BruceinIthaca 10:33 am EST 01/13/18 | |
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| ... and how is it Love Over Death, when Death wins? Forget the tree. Ti Moun is dead. For no reason except being foolishly head over heals over an arrogant asshole. | |
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