Threaded Order Chronological Order
| PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Does anyone else think it is unseemly in this day and age or is Broadway woefully falling farther behind the times? https://www.broadway.com/shows/pretty-woman/ | |
| Link | All-Male PRETTY WOMAN team |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: bowtie7 09:22 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Remember that we only know the final creative team but really have no way of knowing who else may have been considered or approached. Maybe some women were either unavailable or just not interested in working on this project. (Which could be a credit to them considering the less than stellar word coming from the current tryout.) | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:41 pm EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - bowtie7 09:22 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| But that's irrelevant to the fact that they still assembled an all male team to do a specifically more modern and feminist adaptation of a movie about a female sex worker. Are we to assume any project with an all male team is all male because women were approached but were unavailable or uninterested, and so they get credit for presumably only being all male because of that? | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: bowtie7 06:35 pm EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - Chazwaza 01:41 pm EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Actually I was intending to suggest that there was a slight possibility that some female creatives had the good sense to not want to have anything to do with turning this movie that hasn't necessarily aged well, is filled with lots of potential 21st century landmines, and seems to be little more than a cash grab. (I may have only actually succeeded in creating a series of run-on sentences. I did not intend to justify the production decisions.) | |
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| GET OVER IT! | |
| Posted by: TheHarveyBoy 07:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| This is art, not car factory. | |
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| re: GET OVER IT! | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 11:34 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: GET OVER IT! - TheHarveyBoy 07:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| All the more reason--collaborative flourishes when multiple points of view are included. Why anyone in 2018 would want to do a musical of this condescending, misogynistic film is beyond me. | |
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| re: GET OVER IT! | |
| Posted by: FasterTheater 07:54 pm EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: GET OVER IT! - BruceinIthaca 11:34 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| "Why anyone in 2018 would want to do a musical of this condescending, misogynistic film is beyond me." It's beyond me how this misogynistic film was so popular in 1990! |
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| "If we give women a seat at the table, the blacks and Asians will want in next!" | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 09:40 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 09:36 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: GET OVER IT! - TheHarveyBoy 07:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Did I miss anyone else who can't do "art? Since we're reenacting the 1950s and all? | |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: kidmanboy 08:06 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: GET OVER IT! - TheHarveyBoy 07:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| This creative team was clearly procured to make a bankable product. This wasn’t a story that this all-male creative team just NEEDED to tell. And with nary a theatrical credit amongst the four writers, nearly any female writer or composer would have been just as qualified. And with the creative team openly discussing their attempts to make this show a bit more feminist, the lack of a female brain in the mix is extremely glaring. |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 08:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - kidmanboy 08:06 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| So a woman should've been hired for being a woman? Which woman? | |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 11:37 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - KingSpeed 08:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Not for being a woman, but maybe hire a talented creative woman to work on a project that, in its original form, prettifies and sentimentalizes the sexual exploitation of women. I bet Julia Roberts' teeth are better than those of any other street pros (excuse me, sex workers). And we see she is responsible about her health because she flosses! | |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: AlexandraBee 09:25 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - KingSpeed 08:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Across the board the entire creative team is male - not just writers & composers, but director, choreographer, set designer, costume designer, lighting designer, sound designer - all male. There are numerous women who could have been brought on board; but it's the same go-to names. Seems so often to be a boys club. | |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: kidmanboy 08:44 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - KingSpeed 08:15 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Do you really need us to name all of the women playwrights and songwriters that have numerous more theater credits than these four writers? They should have been chosen because they are qualified, not because they are women. And probability on an equal playing field would put the creative team at half women. |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:10 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - kidmanboy 08:44 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| You didn't answer the question. Saying I think Tessori would've been a nice choice for score is one thing. Saying More Women!! is another. Discussions shouldn't be so vague. Be more specific. Is Bryan Adams a bad choice for a score that evokes the 80s? If not, who is better? THAT is the discussion we should be having. |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: sf 09:11 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - KingSpeed 01:10 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
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| " Is Bryan Adams a bad choice for a score that evokes the 80s? If not, who is better?" Cyndi Lauper? That's beside the point, though. For each of the creative roles on this production, there's a list of women who are just as qualified as the men who were hired. In 2018, the all-male creative team - like the all-male panel - no longer flies. We should, by now, have evolved to a point where the days of the industry being a boys' club are over. SOME of us have; apparently you haven't. |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: Ann 09:26 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - sf 09:11 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
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| Great post. I'm hoping it's because a lot of women turned it down, but that's hard to believe. Amazing it's hard for some to see that a woman's take on this story about a woman might have been a good thing. | |
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| re: Oh, please | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 08:56 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Oh, please - kidmanboy 08:44 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| The stupidity is claiming to be feminist without any women on-board. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 07:19 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| For which creative position would you have hired a woman? Which woman? Is that woman better for the job than the man that currently has the job? Why? | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - Still a boys club | |
| Posted by: AlexandraBee 04:07 pm EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 07:19 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Here is an informal breakdown of the 23 musicals currently running and the gender breakdown (not counting book and composer/lyricists): Director - Male: 21 Female: 3 Choreographer - Male: 17 Female: 8 Set Designer - Male: 21 Female: 2 Costume Designer - Male: 11 Female: 12 Lighting Designer - Male: 19 Female: 5 Sound Designer - Male 23 Female: 0 The statistics speak for themselves. |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - Still a boys club | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:16 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - Still a boys club - AlexandraBee 04:07 pm EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| This is not a numbers game. It's art. It's creativity. Let's talk about which women directors, writers, etc should be getting a chance instead of railing on about stats. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - Still a boys club | |
| Posted by: sf 10:04 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - Still a boys club - KingSpeed 01:16 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
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| No, let's talk about the number of women graduating from theatre programmes vs. the proportion of women getting hired for the most high-profile jobs. Then let's talk about the proportion of women in the audience - buying tickets - vs. the proportion of women represented in creative roles. Or are you suggesting women are somehow less capable of "art" and "creativity" than men? Because if that's the case, you haven't met enough women. |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 12:47 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 07:19 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| What are the odds that the best choice for every position on the creative team would be male? It seems so unlikely that you want to ask the producers to pick your lotto numbers. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 08:08 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - whereismikeyfl 12:47 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Like I said, who would you choose instead? | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 11:41 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 08:08 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Really poor argumentative style--why should any poster be able to name a specific woman, any more than a specific man? And if you look at the theatrical scene over the past twenty years, Broadway, off, regional, I am sure you would come up with any number of women who might have been approached. That's like saying, we'd LOVE to hire minorities--we just can't seem to find ANY! Disingenuous and dishonest. If women were approached and said they didn't have any interest in working on a project that makes prostitution appear to be an appealing job, THAT I could understand. |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:18 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - BruceinIthaca 11:41 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| We SHOULD name specific men. Art isn't paint by numbers. Let's talk about artists we'd really like to get a chance. And maybe women did turn it down. Do we know? | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: AlexandraBee 09:57 pm EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 01:18 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
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| When you read across the board that the creative team of a new 21st century musical - director, choreographer, set designer, costume designer, lighting designer and sound designer are all male, you have to infer that the composition (not unlike a 1960's era boardroom) is more out of habit and comfortability (and why ruin a good thing, right?) than talent. It's understandable that no one wants to cede creative power and an opportunity; but sometimes the cycle needs to be broken conscientiously and deliberately. Producers and directors have the power to change this. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: kidmanboy 08:46 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 08:08 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| To replicate the songwriting teams experience, literally ANY female pop song writer of the past thirty years would be just as qualified. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:11 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - kidmanboy 08:46 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| So there's no difference between these women? As long as it's one of them, we're good? Just asking. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: Thom915 12:09 pm EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - kidmanboy 08:46 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Excellent point. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 07:46 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 07:19 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Are you suggesting there are NO women who are even equally qualified for any of the positions? | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 08:09 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - MockingbirdGirl 07:46 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Nope. Just asking the questions that need to be answered. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 11:42 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 08:09 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| Not really--you're simply trolling and revealing your defensiveness about the temerity of posters pointing out the gender disparity in a production whose source claims to be centered around a woman, but actually just reinforces stereotypical objectification of them. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:13 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - BruceinIthaca 11:42 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
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| I'm not doing any of that. I'm just saying we should talk specifics, not generalizations. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: Ncassidine 07:46 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 07:19 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| I'm not sure the questions you are asking are relevant to the intent of the post. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: MTPROF77 07:41 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 07:19 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Be careful: you are making too much sense for this day and age. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:22 am EDT 04/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - MTPROF77 07:41 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Thank you | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: Thom915 07:35 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - KingSpeed 07:19 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| People seem to especially criticize the score which I have not heard so i cannot really say that my choice Jeanine Tesori would be better. On the basis of "Days and Days" from Fun Home as well as her score for Thoroughly Modern Mille (sprightly tunes not the time period) as well as her other scores, I would like to see what she would have done with the material. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 08:10 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - Thom915 07:35 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| That's a much better discussion than "it's so horrible women weren't hired." | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:42 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - Thom915 07:35 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| I'd agree, except I don't think she has in her the sound that the producers must clearly want for this musical of a bad but beloved 80s movie, which is why they hired someone like Bryan Adams... and also I think her talents and time would have been entirely wasted doing a musical of Pretty Woman. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: JayBee 03:29 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| The horror. The horror. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: tmdonahue (tmdonahue@yahoo.com) 12:49 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Well, if the show is like the movie, it is a STRAIGHT MALE FANTASY. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: AlexandraBee 02:36 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - tmdonahue 12:49 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Male is the operative word, be it straight or gay. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: royscho 01:51 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - tmdonahue 12:49 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| No, it’s not. It’s the ultimate chick flick. The people who are watching it on repeats on television for almost 30 years now are women; not men. | |
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| Beg to differ. | |
| Posted by: vegas 07:39 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - royscho 01:51 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| I'm a chick, and I find the movie offensive on every level. I saw it when it first came out, and never again. I have no interest in seeing this on stage, either. | |
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| re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 07:17 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - royscho 01:51 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Really? I'm a man and watched it for the first time recently. | |
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| But... but... she gets to go SHOPPING!!! | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 01:13 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - tmdonahue 12:49 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Right there with you. I need a melon-baller to reverse my eye-roll just from typing that! | |
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| The Lead Producer is a woman | |
| Last Edit: bnyc 11:13 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
| Posted by: bnyc 11:13 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| The Lead Producer is Paula Wagner, so she most likely picked all these men... | |
| Link | https://www.ibdb.com/broadway-cast-staff/paula-wagner-487300 |
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| re: The Lead Producer is a woman | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 11:45 am EDT 04/01/18 | |
| In reply to: The Lead Producer is a woman - bnyc 11:13 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Oh, well that changes EVERYTHING....as, you know, women can never reinforce sexism. Sisterhood and all that. | |
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| re: The Lead Producer is a woman | |
| Posted by: AlexandraBee 11:32 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: The Lead Producer is a woman - bnyc 11:13 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| A film producer who is a first-time Broadway producer, who likely doesn't have a clue about theatre producing and relies on Broadway professionals for advice; so the issue speaks for itself. | |
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| re: The Lead Producer is a woman | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 11:45 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: The Lead Producer is a woman - AlexandraBee 11:32 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Paula Wagner was a producer for Grace, The Heiress and Mothers and Sons on Broadway. | |
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| re: The Lead Producer is a woman | |
| Posted by: AlexandraBee 12:07 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: The Lead Producer is a woman - lowwriter 11:45 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| Shame on her. | |
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| Ugh | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 10:46 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: PRETTY WOMAN - All-Male Creative Team - not a woman in sight. - AlexandraBee 10:25 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| As if the "rich, powerful man learns how to love by reforming hooker" storyline wasn't bad enough. | |
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| re: Ugh | |
| Posted by: sf 12:37 pm EDT 03/31/18 | |
| In reply to: Ugh - MockingbirdGirl 10:46 am EDT 03/31/18 | |
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| There was an even-more-cringe-inducing-than-usual Riedel column back in January suggesting the show would have a "feminist twist" on Broadway. The changes it outlines might make the plot slightly less putrid - but only slightly. The film, as far as I'm concerned, is one of the most appalling heaps of steaming crap ever to come out of Hollywood. |
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| Link | 'Pretty Woman' hooker gets feminist twist on Broadway |
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