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| Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: its the only show still playing from that season - dramedy 01:24 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| As the years pass, the debate over which musical from the 2012-2013 season--specifically Kinky Boots or Matilda--should have taken the top prize(s) continues. I'm in the "Kinky Camp," but I imagine it will long be a hot topic amongst theatre aficionados. What other Tony debates rage on? Some that immediately come to my mind... MUSICAL Nine vs. Dreamgirls La Cage Aux Folles vs. Sunday in the Park With George The Phantom of the Opera vs. Into the Woods The Lion King vs. Ragtime (I would've voted for Side Show!) Avenue Q vs. Wicked (I would've voted for Caroline, or Change!) Billy Elliot vs. Next to Normal BEST PLAY Lost in Yonkers vs. Six Degrees of Separation Doubt vs. The Pillowman The History Boys vs. Rabbit Hole The 2017 race: Oslo won, but I'll bet that Indecent, ADH2, and Sweat will only continue to grow more esteemed as they're produced regionally PERFORMANCES Bernadette Peters (Annie Get Your Gun) vs. Carolee Carmello (Parade) Marissa Jaret Winokur (Hairspray) vs. Bernadette Peters (Gypsy) Idina Menzel (Wicked) vs. almost everyone else in the category--Chenoweth (Wicked), Murphy (Wonderful Town), and Pinkins (Caroline, or Change) |
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| Great Tony Debates: 1958 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 01:08 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| The Music Man versus West Side Story | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: seenenuf 12:04 am EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| None of this means anything at all. The Tonys are for self promotion and ticket sales. There is no just "truth" Great performances in different roles cannot be compared. Apples and Oranges. 'Best" means nothing other than box office potential. It is all a waste of time. And this board likes to waste a lot of time. |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 07:53 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Great Tony Debates - seenenuf 12:04 am EDT 04/05/18 | |
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| ...and why not? It's fun! If you don't like it, you can easily find other things to do....like read Schopenhauer! | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 07:53 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Great Tony Debates - BruceinIthaca 07:53 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
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| And by the way, I think that Schopenhauer was NOT right! | |
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| And....in 1959....... | |
| Posted by: mermaniac 09:36 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Not ONE ---- SINGLE ------ TONY--------FOR -------- (wait for it) ----------GYPSY !!!!!!!! | |
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| re: And....in 1960 not one single Tony for Gypsy | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:26 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
| In reply to: And....in 1959....... - mermaniac 09:36 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Had it not opened too late for the 1959 Tonys, it surely would have won several awards, including best musical and best leading actress in a musical, the latter even over the tough competition from Gwen Verdon. | |
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| re: And....in 1959....... | |
| Posted by: JohnDunlop 11:47 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: And....in 1959....... - mermaniac 09:36 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I saw Gypsy and The Sound of Music in August 1960. It may have been decided by number of tickets sold and the love of R&H and Martin. | |
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| And for best Actress ... | |
| Posted by: jdm 06:18 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Let us not forget the wonderful Stephanie D'Abruzzo from Ave. Q!! Jim |
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| 2004 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:21 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| That year is really the biggest offense to me because not only was Caroline or Change BY FAR the most deserving show and even if it lost Best Musical to more crowd pleasing shows, it should have easily taken Best Book and Best Score, but Tonya Pinkins should AT LEAST have won for her unbelievable performance of one of the most challenging roles in musical theater... giving it to Idina who was pretty good in a good role, was embarrassing. And yes Carolee really did deserve it for Parade over BP... but BP deserved it for Gypsy much more than MJK in Hairspray, I thought. But the crazier one to me that year was Antonio Banderas losing for Nine to Harvey for Hairspray. |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: mikem 06:06 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: 2004 - Chazwaza 03:21 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I didn't see Pinkins, but I didn't think Menzel gave the best performance in her category in the show, let alone for the whole season. | |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:06 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - mikem 06:06 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I think they somehow felt they owed it to her, not in small part because of the requirements of the show - a tough vocal role and being covered in green make up every day... plus being one of the forces being that blockbuster show. I also assume most voters actually SAW Wicked but maybe didn't get to Caroline. Also, I think they felt the need to make a star out of Menzel, or validate her being a fresh young broadway star by giving her a Tony. In another year, with less amazing nominees doing less incredible material, she might have deserved it, but not that year. |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: JohnPopa 03:47 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: 2004 - Chazwaza 03:21 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I guess losing track of the years, I always thought Pinkins did win for 'Caroline or Change.' Or maybe my memories are just trying to correct things :) | |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:12 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - JohnPopa 03:47 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Well, if you go just off the Tony performances that year, Pinkins did win! Not only is "Lot's Wife" far more impressive as a bid for a Best Actress Tony than "Defying Gravity", but Idina... dare I say... cracked a bit in her big money moment (which, as far as money moments in songwriting, throwing an "ahhHHHahHHHH" at the end is pretty lazy and unimpressive if you ask me), which I think was more notable than the audible wear and tear on Tonya's voice that night. | |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:20 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - Chazwaza 04:12 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| "Well, if you go just off the Tony performances that year, Pinkins did win!" I'm going to have to look at it again, but as I recall, Pinkins over-sang and over-emoted in the Tony performance of "Lot's Wife," which resulted in her going off pitch and sounding like she was losing her voice. So, based on that particular performance of the song (which, of course, the award was NOT based on), I'm not sure I agree with you. |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:34 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - Michael_Portantiere 05:20 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Yeah like I said he had a lot of audible wear and tear on her voice but luckily for her it fits with her tired, worn and gruff character, struggling through an angry internal conflict soliloquy. And I have watched that performance a few times and never felt she was over-emoting - but I do think out of context, and with the top of the song cut off for time, it is nowhere near as powerful or emotionally logical as it is in the show (or when I saw her do it in the show). However I still think it's one of the best Tony performances, and definitely better than Menzel's, since that one kind of lives on that last "ahhAAHHHaahhh!" which she did not nail that night. I remember gasping when I was watching it when it first aired, like watching an ice skater ALMOST land her key jump but not. |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: writerkev 05:34 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - Michael_Portantiere 05:20 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I think she sounded like she was losing her voice because she was losing her voice. There was a lot of talk at the time about how ragged she was sounding onstage, and I think she definitely sounded so on the Tonys. |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 04:06 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - JohnPopa 03:47 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| If it's any consolation, Pinkins did win a Tony for Featured Actress for ''Jelly's Last Jam'' (1992). And I agree with Chazwaza about Antonio Banderas: He should've won Best Actor for ''Nine.'' It's not a Tony debate, but there's always Lippa's ''Wild Party'' vs. LaChiusa's ''Wild Party,'' but only LaChiusa's made it to Broadway. And there's Lloyd Webber's ''Phantom'' vs. Yeston's ''Phantom,'' but only Lloyd Webber's made it to Broadway. |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:14 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - WaymanWong 04:06 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Oh, for me (as one could guess), there's no debate for The Wild Party. The LaChiusa version that got to broadway is light years better as a piece of musical theater art, as an adaptation of the poem, and as a production. I have yet to experience Yeston's Phantom but hope to listen to it soon. |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 07:55 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - Chazwaza 04:14 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Wasn't that debate the source of a joke on one of the Forbidden Broadway recordings? | |
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| re: 2004 | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 04:05 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 04:04 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: 2004 - JohnPopa 03:47 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Pinkins won the Tony in '92 for Best Featured Actress (Musical) -- Jelly's Last Jam | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:34 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Just a general comment that, as is generally the case for all awards shows, most musicals in competition for the Tony are so different from each other that the idea of choosing which one is the "best" of all is arguably almost meaningless. Except of course for the record books and at the box office :-) | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: JohnPopa 02:21 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I still can't imagine how "Will Rogers Follies" beat "Miss Saigon," "The Secret Garden" and "Once On This Island" for Best Score. Even if they gave it best musical (which it isn't)but best SCORE? | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: PurpleMoney 09:26 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Great Tony Debates - JohnPopa 02:21 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| Sorry you didn't approve of Will Rogers Follies. It was a patriot year so Miss Saigon was never going to win. The recent revival showed how bad a book an score it contained. I loved Once On This Island and can not think of revisiting it again. The Secret Garden was more casting than substance. | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: writerkev 02:18 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I think, if anything, "Sweat" will grow to be even less esteemed as time goes on, not moreso. | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 07:57 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Great Tony Debates - writerkev 02:18 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I agree--after I saw it, I wondered how the hell it won the Pulitzer. Actually, I think it won because of the country's political and social climate, not because it was a great play. "Ruined" was a great play, "Sweat" was okay, but was bolstered for me by its actors more so than by its writing. | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: carolinaguy 02:16 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Great Tony Debates - GabbyGerard 02:07 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| I get a headache every time I remember that Spamalot beat Light in the Piazza | |
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| re: Great Tony Debates | |
| Posted by: bearcat 02:52 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Great Tony Debates - carolinaguy 02:16 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| and Kelly O'Hara was not presented w the award but Sara Ramirez was (what was anybody thinking?) |
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| Tony! Tony! Tony! | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 07:58 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Great Tony Debates - bearcat 02:52 pm EDT 04/04/18 | |
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| And here I thought we were going to discuss Perkins vs. Randall vs. Roberts! | |
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