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| Alfie D. a villain? | |
| Last Edit: StageDoorJohnny 06:50 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| Posted by: StageDoorJohnny 06:50 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: The Painstaking Detail That Went Into Lauren Ambrose’s My Fair Lady Hat - Michael_Portantiere 03:42 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
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| Really, corporal punishment in 1914 -- how shocking - pfft! If you don't like it, that's fine and I have no problem with that, but expecting characters to conform to today's sensitivities is silly. Do you call Macbeth stupid because he believes in witches and prophecy? As to Eliza and Alfie's relationship, at the tea party/Ascot scene, who is it that Eliza speaks of admiringly? Alfie. The only time in MFL of physical abuse is threatened is when Higgins raises his hand to Eliza. Alfie never says he's hit Eliza, he suggests that Higgins do it. Spare the rod sort of thing. in the long run, the way society treats Eliza because of her dialect is far more damaging | |
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| re: Alfie D. a villain? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:05 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
| In reply to: Alfie D. a villain? - StageDoorJohnny 06:50 pm EDT 04/05/18 | |
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| "Really, corporal punishment in 1914 -- how shocking - pfft! If you don't like it, that's fine and I have no problem with that, but expecting characters to conform to today's sensitivities is silly." Sorry you found my comment "silly," but maybe that's because you missed my point, which was to contrast the great angst over Billy hitting Julie (and Louise) in CAROUSEL as compared to Alfie Doolittle's free admission that, sometimes in the past, he beat his daughter Eliza with a strap. My post had nothing to do with my "expecting characters to conform to today's sensitivities," as I have no such expectation or wish. |
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| re: Alfie D. a villain? | |
| Posted by: StageDoorJohnny 02:41 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfie D. a villain? - Michael_Portantiere 12:05 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
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| he never says any such thing, I suggest you read the script again. His suggestion that Higgins employ that 'punishment' is certainly there, but there is no admission that HE actually did it. And comparing a situation in Carousel, which is a dramatic musical to a situation in MFL, a comedy, seems a little problematic to me. And apparently to others -- hence the lack of 'angst' |
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| re: Alfie D. a villain? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfie D. a villain? - StageDoorJohnny 02:41 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
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| "He never says any such thing, I suggest you read the script again. His suggestion that Higgins employ that 'punishment' is certainly there, but there is no admission that HE actually did it. Thanks for your suggestion, but to me, the strong implication is that Doolittle himself has hit Eliza with a strap as a form of discipline at some point(s) during their parent/child relationship -- I assume when she was younger and they were living together. If he had never used a strap on her himself, why would he suddenly happen to suggest to Higgins that he might do so? To me, that would make no sense. "And comparing a situation in Carousel, which is a dramatic musical to a situation in MFL, a comedy, seems a little problematic to me. And apparently to others -- hence the lack of 'angst.'" I agree, to a certain extent, and that's what I meant about focus and context. But also, I hope it goes without saying that despite the overall tone of MFL being considerably lighter than that of CAROUSEL, the former certainly has some very serious and thought-provoking elements, and the point that Eliza very much wants to escape a hard, cruel, abusive life is one of them. |
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| re: Alfie D. a villain? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 06:35 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 06:34 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfie D. a villain? - Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
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| I think Doolittle implies that he has threatened Eliza with a strap in the past, not necessarily hit her with one. Eliza also mentions in the text that she has had a black eye before, but that's not necessarily from her father -- it could have been in school, with another flower girl trying to move in on her turf, etc. It's possible that Doolittle hit her to keep her disciplined, but years ago corporal punishment at least here in the U.S. was legal -- not sure about the UK. Also, not sure if one whack would be considered excessive, though nowadays with some parenting advocates it might be. | |
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| re: Alfie D. a villain? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 08:20 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfie D. a villain? - PlayWiz 06:34 pm EDT 04/06/18 | |
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| Again, I think what Alfie Doolittle says indicates quite clearly that he hit her with a strap in the past as a form of discipline, presumably during her childhood. I'm not sure why some people are so resistant to this interpretation when it seems so clear, but I guess it's because they don't like to think of Eliza's father doing that to her, because they like to think of him as a more benign, roguishly lovable character. | |
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