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| How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 08:43 pm EDT 05/14/18 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 08:37 pm EDT 05/14/18 | |
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| The story makes no sense. The lyrics are unsurprising, on the nose, and basic. No inventiveness, no surprise. This thing has accumulated for Disney a snowstorm of money, and given Jennifer Lee and Kristen Anderson-Lopez huge residual checks. They should hand over at least half their earnings to Bobby Lopez. His melodies are almost uniformly to thank. And even he seems to be phoning it in, now that I've heard the new Broadway cast recording. Did Stephen Schwartz ghost write this music? It sounds so. - GMB, who does think "Kristoff Lullaby" would make for a nice addition to a night of cut-from-PIPPIN trunk songs. |
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| Link | SPOTIFY | "Frozen, the Broadway Musical" |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 05:12 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:37 pm EDT 05/14/18 | |
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| Just think of the target audience. | |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 10:43 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - Pokernight 05:12 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| I hear you, but Disney taking time to really develop a show with high artistic aims makes the difference between THE LITTLE MERMAID and THE LION KING. One of them is basically a non-Equity bus & truck tour right now, while the other is maintaining long sit-down professional runs in multiple foreign languages around the world. Disney's artists themselves usually aim higher. - GMB, who feels like so much of this stuff wouldn't happen if Howard Ashman hadn't died :( :( :( |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: Britannia 12:47 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:37 pm EDT 05/14/18 | |
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| I can't comment on the show itself because I haven't seen it (I don't live in NYC), but the thing to remember is that Jennifer Lee did not write the film "Frozen." As a screenwriter, she developed it with a team of very talented and experienced story artists and the songwriters. For example, it was artist John Ripa who created the ending of the film where [SPOILER] Anna freezes as she sacrifices herself to save Elsa. If you've seen the film of "A Wrinkle in Time," which she co-wrote, it's clear that Ms. Lee's talents lie in contributing to the writing process, probably not in being the sole writer or working with just one other writer. There is some headshakingly bad exposition in "A Wrinkle in Time," some very poor character choices, and a lack of character development. Not to sound cruel, but it's the sort of script people don't write if they know how to do it extremely well. I don't want to jump the gun to trash "Frozen" because I haven't seen the Broadway show (and LOVE the movie), but I could see how she would not be the best choice to write the book for the musical. It saddens me that they may not have gotten this right; it's such a rich movie and could have made something very special as a stage musical. Perhaps they should have tapped a BMI bookwriting graduate? | |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:40 pm EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - Britannia 12:47 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| You may be right about this writer. However I'm not sure BMI would have helped... have any of their bookwriting students gone on to be part of anything notable that was good, or anything notable at all? I'm sure many talented and skilled writers go through the program but I can't think of a single one who went on to any notable success in book writing yet. Are there any? | |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: Britannia 04:55 pm EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - Chazwaza 12:40 pm EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| There have been some--Brian Yorkey, Howard Ashman, Lynn Ahrens, Michael John LaChuisa. If there is a lack of other names, I would see that has having to do with lack of opportunity. How many musicals have had books by writers who were successful in writing plays or screenplays and then got asked to work in the musical form? It's easier for a songwriter to get his/her work out there than a bookwriter, and the truth is, it's hard to write the book of a musical. Having some training can only make it better. | |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:02 am EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - Britannia 04:55 pm EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| Sorry I should have specified... I meant recently, like in the last 20 years even, but certainly the last 10. Not to mention that all of the people you listed were at BMI as composers and/or lyricists, unless I'm mistaken. And without checking, I feel like BMI didn't even have a bookwriting department until after the people you listed had completed their composer/lyricist program. Anyone know? | |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 11:08 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - Britannia 12:47 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| I didn't see the Wrinkle in Time adaptation yet. The reviews were so unkind. I'm such a big believer in Ava Duvernay and I wanted her to have a more unqualified success with that film. I have no idea what Jennifer Lee's strengths are, but the basic RULES of the genre don't work in the film (or the stage show). What, exactly, are Elsa's magical powers? Can she just make anything she wants with ice, including a fancy dress and talking snow creatures? Does she eat food up there on that mountain? How? In what way are these gnomes supposed to be "love experts," if they're trying to force Anna and Kristoff into a shotgun wedding? The "Honest Trailers" YouTube channel rightly had a heyday with "Frozen" on film, to the tune of 33 million views. Linked below. - GMB |
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| Link | Honest Trailers - Frozen |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: Britannia 04:51 pm EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - GrumpyMorningBoy 11:08 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| Again, I haven't seen the Broadway show, so I can only comment on the film. I think that Elsa's powers are implied. The dress is a stretch, but it looks icy, so I feel comfortable assuming it is an icy dress. When she is free and relieved, she creates an joyful snow creature. When she is afraid, she creates a scary snow creature in an attempt to (safely) scare Anna away (Marshmallow never actually hurts her). As for the "love experts," those are Kristoff's words, and growing up with them, he would see them as experts. And, truthfully, they see through Anna that she is in love with Kristoff and not with Hans, so in some ways, they are love experts. To me, the two biggest problems in the film is that Hans's change is completely out of left field. When he first meets Anna, as she leaves, he looks upon her fondly. I think that look should have been one of contemplation to hint that it's not about love. When he reveals himself to her, it's a little too evil villain monologue-ish. I would have preferred to see it be a little more subtle. Maybe he's even apologetic that he won't kiss her before enacting his dastardly plan. I also think a case could be made against the placement of "In Summer." But, clearly audiences ate up every minute in the film. |
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| “Monster” is surely the least interesting number ever added for a major character. | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 12:46 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 12:43 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:37 pm EDT 05/14/18 | |
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| I’ve posted about my numbed reaction to this song but I can’t get past how uninteresting it is. The bald literalness of its lyric, so on the nose the nose is smashed flat - and Idol-y swoop in the pop melody are startling. Imagine providing Elsa with another color in the second act instead of trying to shatter the ceiling. Imaging if she sang something quieter and ruminative after living alone. It adds no depth or emotional texture. It’s a big loud overstatement of what the audience knows. | |
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| re: “Monster” is surely the least interesting number ever added for a major character. | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 10:46 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
| In reply to: “Monster” is surely the least interesting number ever added for a major character. - Delvino 12:43 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| You're totally right, Delvino. To make Elsa temporarily what, suicidal? -- it defies all reason. Hooray for anyone who decides to write a song in seven, but it feels gimmicky here. - GMB |
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| Question for GMB | |
| Posted by: allineedisthegirl 11:57 am EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: “Monster” is surely the least interesting number ever added for a major character. - GrumpyMorningBoy 10:46 am EDT 05/15/18 | |
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| I don't know what it means "to write a song in seven." You mean seven beats to the measure? I haven't heard the score. Thanks. db |
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| What a song "in seven" means | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 04:54 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 04:52 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: Question for GMB - allineedisthegirl 11:57 am EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| Yes, essentially. If you're familiar with the term time signature, we would say that music is "in seven" if the time signature has 7 beats per measure. Most often, it's notated as 7/8, so there are seven beats per measure and an eighth note gets one beat. Technically, it's called septuple time. Within musical theater, Andrew Llloyd Webber is probably most famous for writing songs in seven within his musicals; nearly every show has one. "And the Money Kept Rolling In (and Out)" from EVITA is an easy example. - GMB |
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| Link | Youtube | "Monster" from the Broadway production of FROZEN |
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| re: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:43 pm EDT 05/14/18 | |
| In reply to: How can the writing on FROZEN be this bad?!? - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:37 pm EDT 05/14/18 | |
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| I can't argue with any of that - it was true of the vastly overrated film too. BUT the music and lyrics are credited to BOTH Bobby and Kristen, so why do you think they are Bobby's melodies? |
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