Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... | |
| Posted by: portenopete 02:03 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... - sf 09:41 am EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| Uhhh, yes it does. (When sung- singed?- with an English accent.) | |
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| re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 06:40 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... - portenopete 02:03 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| In the music for "On the Street Where You Live" as written, "bother me" does not rhyme with "rather be" under any circumstances, in any accent. "Bother me" rhymes with "father me," or with "rather me." The vowel sounds are close enough, but in a feminine rhyme like this one all unaccented syllables following the accented syllable (where the rhyme is) must be identical. Lerner knew that, and observed it elsewhere in the same song ("street before" / "feet before"; "heart of town" / "part of town"). The phrases "bother me" and "rather be" could be made to rhyme twice--that is, as two separate rhymes--if the music accented both the "both-"/"rath-" syllable and the "me"/"be" syllable, but that isn't the case here. |
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| re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... | |
| Posted by: sf 02:37 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... - portenopete 02:03 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| "Bother me" rhymes with "rather be" when sung in an English accent? Really? Nope. At least, not in any English accent Freddie might conceivably have. In broad Norfolk or some parts of the West Country the sounds would be closer than they are in RP, but even there it wouldn't be an exact rhyme. |
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| I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. | |
| Posted by: portenopete 02:55 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... - sf 02:37 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| I see your point- or rather hear it- but it's not that egregious. I think that for most people it would slide by unnoticed. (More so than something like "the Scotch and the Irish".) Were any lyrical changes made when it opened at Drury Lane in 1958? The same way they changed some lines in SHE LOVES ME to accommodate the English accents of the cast? |
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| re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. | |
| Posted by: sf 03:49 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. - portenopete 02:55 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| "I think that for most people it would slide by unnoticed." ...because obviously the fact that they have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VOWEL SOUNDS is easy to miss. I do think a lot of people either don't notice or don't care when rhymes aren't perfect, but in a show that is *about* English accents Lerner doesn't get a free pass for it. In taking on this particular source material, he made it his job to get the sounds he assigned his (and Shaw's) characters right, and he sometimes didn't. |
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| re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:00 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. - sf 03:49 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| Cool your jets and unlock your caps. PLAIN and PLUM are completely different vowel sounds. ZOO and 'ZINE are completely different vowel sounds. RAWTHER and BOTHER are slightly different vowel sounds. Which is why 99.9% of people have never noticed Lerner's fudge and why MY FAIR LADY continues to be produced 62 years after its composition. Now you can get back to reassembling his ashes in Hartsdale so you can tar and feather them. |
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| re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. | |
| Posted by: sf 05:13 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. - portenopete 05:00 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| "Rather" isn't pronounced "rawther" in any variety of British English. (A hint: when you're trying to assert your superior knowledge, it's usually a good idea to avoid inadvertently demonstrating the opposite.) It's aaa as in aardvark, not raw like sushi. (Hey! A Neneh Cherry reference!) |
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| re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. | |
| Posted by: bearcat 03:15 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. - portenopete 02:55 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| re "Show Me" don't talk of spring/don't talk of fall/don't talk at all... "fall" as a season is not used in UK, but I forget what the change was |
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| re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 03:37 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 03:35 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. - bearcat 03:15 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| Lerner also rhymes "foreign" with "aren" (as in "aren't" when discussing Karpathy, the Hungarian, during the "You Did It" number. Higgins has no reason, except for the lyric give him here, to leave out the final consonant. Would he get in trouble with Equity or Lerner's estate if he sang "aren" and then spit out an extra "t"? :) Assuming he is singing, since Harrison rarely did in his famous sprechsinging performance. | |
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| re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:03 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I'm not ready to dump on Lerner for that one. - PlayWiz 03:35 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| I had always taken the missing T to be a Hungarian quirk of Karpathy's. How DO Hungarians pronounce "foreign"? Fah-Ren? |
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| re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... | |
| Posted by: MikeR 02:12 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: But, as Henry Higgins sings in MY FAIR LADY... - portenopete 02:03 pm EDT 05/16/18 | |
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| Hold on... getting popcorn... (You're replying to an English person) |
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