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| NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| Exactly 25 years later, the first Broadway revival of “Angels in America” started us thinking about what has happened to American plays in the meantime. Have they been as great? Is their greatness different from what it was? Is “greatness” even a meaningful category anymore? | |
| Link | The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ |
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| American Hwangap | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:54 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| All lists have their pros and cons, and this list is better than most, especially considering the people who are making it. Some choices are excellent, others head-scratching, and the fact that we don't agree on which play fits into which category suggests that they chose well. There is one play that I wished had made the list, which is Lloyd Suh's deeply underappreciated "American Hwangap". A Korean-American family play with a hint of "Death of a Salesman", it's a lyrical, emotional, surprisingly complex story of a father who had abandoned his wife and children asking to be let back into their lives. |
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| But it's not even what the headline says it is | |
| Posted by: chrismpls 11:53 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| Obviously, these sorts of things are always open to debate about choices -- and that's the point of them. And I get that something must be done to help winnow down the contenders. But if you're going to call it the 25 best American plays of the last 25 years, it should be possible for a playwright to have more than one play (it's 25 best plays, not playwrights) and I'd argue that excluding musicals is equally arbitrary. | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 10:16 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| A DOLLS HOUSE PART 2, ALL THE WAY, AUGUST OSAGE COUNTY, BROKEN GLASS, BURIED CHILD, CLYBOURNE PARK, DOUBT, ECLIPSED, INDECENT, LOVE VALOUR COMPASSION, OSLO, PROOF, SEVEN GUITARS, THE GOAT, THE KENTUCKY CYCLE, THREE TALL WOMEN, TIME STANDS STILL, TRUE WEST, VANYA SONIA MASHA SPIKE, | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 11:28 am EDT 06/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - NewtonUK 10:16 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| True West and Buried Child preceded Angels In America by several years. Maybe not on Broadway, but they each had legendary status by the time anyone ever heard mention of Angels In America. | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: GabbyGerard 11:56 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - NewtonUK 10:16 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| The Goat! Indecent! Love Valor Compassion! TIME STANDS STILL!!! Excellent list. |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:41 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - NewtonUK 10:16 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| That's a fine list. It betrays a certain demographic, no doubt about it. Everyone gets to choose the products of their own taste, background, etc., not to mention sense of how certain other demographics should be viewed, but it sure would be nice if such a fine list did not follow on the heels of a dismissive judgment of others' tastes, etc. | |
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| The Realistic Joneses? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 09:17 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - ryhog 10:41 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Ugh | |
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| re: The Realistic Joneses? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:54 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: The Realistic Joneses? - KingSpeed 09:17 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Yeah, no question, the Will Eno play that should have been on the list was "Thom Pain (based on nothing)". | |
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| re: The Realistic Joneses? | |
| Posted by: davei2000 11:52 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: The Realistic Joneses? - Singapore/Fling 09:54 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| ...which was attacked here even more mercilessly than Joneses at the time. I can't wait for the revival!...;) | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:30 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - ryhog 10:41 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| The act of only acknowledging plays that went to Broadway already limits it to a certain demographic. The list that emerges is a fair reflection of Broadway in the past quarter century. | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:22 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - Singapore/Fling 06:30 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| The act of only acknowledging plays that went to Broadway already limits it to a certain demographic. The list that emerges is a fair reflection of Broadway in the past quarter century. Ummmm... did you actually read the article? "Of the plays we’ve singled out as the best 25 of the last 25 years — dated by their first reviews in The New York Times — only nine have ever appeared on Broadway, and none originated there." |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Last Edit: ryhog 08:45 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:44 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - MockingbirdGirl 08:22 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| ummm,,, the post to which I and in turn Singapore was responding moved the goalposts. Read the subject line in your post. | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 11:57 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - ryhog 08:44 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Ah, OK. You're right, I'd missed the addition of 'Broadway' to limit the field. Thanks. | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:39 am EDT 06/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - MockingbirdGirl 11:57 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| I had too, but caught it when I was called out for important vs best, another change in the subject. (Although I prefer important since it admits of a bit less vagueness though as I said they are essentially synonymous in my dictionary.) | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:12 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - Singapore/Fling 06:30 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Well, the Broadway focus for plays is bizarrely myopic but I let that pass. | |
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| re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 11:21 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: My list of the most important American plays to open on Broadway since ANGELS (1993) - ryhog 08:12 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| It is especially bizarre since it means including a number of plays written long before Angels but not seen on Bway till after. | |
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| re: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ | |
| Posted by: Joe90 06:18 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| Any list that puts 'Mr Burns' and 'The Flick' close to the top is fine with me. 'Mr Burns' changed the way I thought dramatic theatre could function; the Almeida production remains a highlight of my theatre-going life. Joe. |
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| re: NYT: The Great Work Continues: or not ... | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 05:42 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| I've seen, luckily or unluckily, the 25 plays on the NYT list. A great colleague who ran a major European repertory theatre for many years once tolde me that he considered a great play to be one that was produced by theatres all over the world. Like ANGELS IN AMERICA. Every country had good plays, that only they perform, but these should not be confused with gIreat plays - like ANGELS, DEATH OF A SALESMAN, etc. ANGELS is a great, sprawling, messy play, produced all over the world, turned into an opera. Is there a play on this eclectic, politically correct NY Times list that is even close to being in this class? RUINED and THREE TALL WOMEN for sure. THE WOLVES? CHAD DEITY? Really? The former was a terrific kinetic production of an ok play. The latter - well the less said the better. If these are the best 25 AMERICAN plays since ANGELS, then I worry for Americal playwriting. |
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| re: NYT: The Great Work Continues: or not ... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:47 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT: The Great Work Continues: or not ... - NewtonUK 05:42 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| There is much good to be said for Chad Deity. It gleefully pushes the boundaries of what theater can do and who it is made for. It is a more honest reflection of American culture than most of what gets produced in New York. It offers a bold, viscerally exciting examination of very difficult questions about how America chooses to classify and contain people of color. It's a serious play that doesn't take itself seriously, and so it's a lot of fun while having much more to say than any number of talky, issue-driven plays. As for your larger framing about what gets produced globally, I think we have to be careful about presuming that the only reason a play doesn't travel is because of quality. Many plays are culturally specific in ways that make them less appealing to foreign audiences. |
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| any list with This Is Our Youth at number TWELVE and ABOVE 3 Tall Women ... | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:24 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| Is to be taken with a massive grain of salt. And putting Yellow Face on there seems like pandering... this list has SO many glaring problems with what is included and how it's ranked and in what is left out, it's kind of amazing. |
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| re: any list with This Is Our Youth at number TWELVE and ABOVE 3 Tall Women ... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:51 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: any list with This Is Our Youth at number TWELVE and ABOVE 3 Tall Women ... - Chazwaza 03:24 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| I'm mystified by the "problems" you seem to find. I think all of the choices are valid, even if they are not all mine. For instance, I think (depending on your definitions) a strong argument can be made that Youth is more "important" than 3TW. I love the latter, but I am not convinced it broke new ground in the way the former did. That said, I think my strongest agreement is with whoever said that ranking things is just silliness. | |
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| re: any list with This Is Our Youth at number TWELVE and ABOVE 3 Tall Women ... | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 03:25 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:21 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: any list with This Is Our Youth at number TWELVE and ABOVE 3 Tall Women ... - ryhog 10:51 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Don't be "mystified", it's not that dramatic. But the list saying it is the 25 "BEST" not "most important" or even "25 plays that represent American theater since Angels", which seems more accurate to their intentions. I do not think, by any stretch of the imagination, that This Is Our Youth is the 13th BEST play since 1993... i don't even know if makes the top 25. In fact, I do not think it should. |
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| re: any list with This Is Our Youth at number TWELVE and ABOVE 3 Tall Women ... | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:45 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: any list with This Is Our Youth at number TWELVE and ABOVE 3 Tall Women ... - Chazwaza 03:21 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| How are you defining "best"? To me best and important are synonymous (and to explain a bit more, I don't think "important" has to relate to the subject matter of a play). | |
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| re: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ | |
| Posted by: NeoAdamite 12:48 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| I only know 17 of the 25, and of those there are two I deeply dislike; but otherwise these are all contenders, though announcing it as "The Best..." is silly. | |
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| re: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 10:48 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - NeoAdamite 12:48 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| I agree. I think those of us who go to the theater a lot don't need the Times any longer to decide what is "best." | |
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| I’m shocked they left Proof off the list. | |
| Posted by: GabbyGerard 08:26 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
| In reply to: NYT: The Great Work Continues: The 25 Best American Plays Since ‘Angels in America’ - MockingbirdGirl 08:10 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| Perhaps its issues didn’t strike the journalists as sufficiently “epic,” but I think it’s pretty damn near perfectly written. As someone with mentally ill family members, its dramatization of Catherine, Claire, and even Robert’s fears of how the disease may affect their own lives (not to mention the lives of their loved ones) struck me as harrowingly honest in a way that August Osage County—a grander play that touches on similar issues and DID make the list—does not. | |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: BroadwayBabby1991 10:04 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
| In reply to: I’m shocked they left Proof off the list. - GabbyGerard 08:26 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| that was a fascinating list, but I would certainly add Proof, Doubt, I am My Own Wife and Take Me Out. I was pleasantly surprised at the inclusion of The Apple Family Plays and Underground Railroad Game. I would absolutely remove Mr. Burns, a Post-Electric Play from the NY Times list | |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:32 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - BroadwayBabby1991 10:04 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| And I was thrilled by Mr. Burns but appalled by Underground Railroad Game. | |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 01:33 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - BroadwayBabby1991 10:04 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| Mr. Burns does not belong on that list. I also would not have listed Eurydice. A play by Amy Herzog should be there. I would have included Skeleton Crew. And Sons of the Prophet instead of The Humans. I would like to see a list compiled by a critic of a color and a woman critic. |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Last Edit: JayBee 03:15 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| Posted by: JayBee 03:13 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - lowwriter 01:33 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Oh, come on! This is the most politically correct list of plays imaginable. It really doesn't matter who was judging because all the "correct" buttons were pushed in order to make just about everyone happy. And that's what is known as 21st Century culture. | |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:34 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - JayBee 03:13 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Yes, 21st Century Culture involves an attempt to make space for the full diversity of people in the culture. | |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: writerkev 04:22 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - JayBee 03:13 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| I have to agree.... | |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 07:40 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 07:40 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - lowwriter 01:33 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| I would like to see a list compiled by a critic of a color and a woman critic. According to the Times, three of the five who compiled this list were women: Laura Collins-Hughes, Alexis Soloski and Elisabeth Vincentelli. |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 10:45 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - MockingbirdGirl 07:40 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| I missed that because I saw Brantley and Green as the byline. I may be wrong but I think a critic of color would come up with a different list. |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: MikeR 01:15 pm EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - lowwriter 10:45 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| I think every critic would come up with a different list. That's kind of how opinions work. | |
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| Wow! Re Amy Herzog | |
| Posted by: BroadwayBabby1991 07:10 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - lowwriter 01:33 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| Herzog and Skeleton Crew were my first reaction as well! For Herzog, I would probably chose After the Revolution (haven't read the script for Marry Jane yet, so I was hesitant to chose that one) This list provided some great conversation for a dinner party my partner and I hosted last night |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: owk 12:39 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - BroadwayBabby1991 10:04 pm EDT 05/31/18 | |
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| I'm much more shocked by what's on the list than by what's missing. An awful lot of these "great" plays are going to sink like stones over the next decade if they haven't already. | |
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| re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list | |
| Posted by: mikem 12:50 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Im Shocked Doubt isn't on the list - owk 12:39 am EDT 06/01/18 | |
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| The list compilers seem to have a certain perspective. The list seems dominated by "issue" plays, particularly race. Three of the top 5 are about race. I wish they hadn't had such a narrow definition of a good play. There are many good plays that they probably dismiss. |
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