Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| A few days ago, someone in my dinner group blithely noted: "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers." This person had done a lot of freewheeling traveling and considered the kindness of strangers a dependable way to operate through his varied excursions. I started to rethink my (and maybe the standard interpretation) of this phrase. Blanche has been so wracked and is now so fragile, she needs the kindness of strangers. But "strangers" have not done her right -- Shep Huntley, Shaw, all those encountered on the byways leading to the family estate have mishandled her. Depending on strangers is no way to navigate a life - even tho it sounds noble and benevolent coming from Blanche. The conclusion's doctor and nurse are most likely leading her to an asylum for the poor where she will be mishandled, given cold baths, shook treatments, perhaps a lobotomy. have I been misreading this line all these years, or am I misinterpreting it now...?...- |
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| Sunset Blvd | |
| Posted by: bobby2 12:19 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| I just realized how similar the endings are. Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? (although I must admit that ending in the movie and when done by Close is pretty thrilling....all you people out there in the dark.) | |
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| Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? | |
| Posted by: garyd 12:27 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: Sunset Blvd - bobby2 12:19 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| No. | |
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| re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? | |
| Posted by: bobby2 12:50 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? - garyd 12:27 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| Well maybe there should have been. | |
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| re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? | |
| Posted by: garyd 02:56 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? - bobby2 12:50 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| There are those who agree with you. | |
| Link | http://emanuellevy.com/comment/sunset-boulevard-billy-wilder-influenced-by-tennessee-williams-streetcar-named-desire/ |
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| re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:34 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? - garyd 02:56 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| The article in the link was written in 2016. Looking at the two films today, we can readily note the similarity of the endings. It's also plausible to theorize that Wilder could have been influenced by Williams' play. However, growing up in the 50's and being a young theatre/movie geek, I never read or heard anything like that about Wilder and the genesis of Blvd, nor later when it and Streetcar made their TV debuts. Reportedly Wilder was influenced by circumstances in the lives of film icons Mary Pickford, Clara Bow, and Mae Marsh. All three had huge careers in silent films, which abruptly halted with the advent of talkies. Pickford became shockingly reclusive. Bow suffered a nervous breakdown and was plagued (as was Marsh) with bouts of mental illness for many years. Marsh, however, recovered and had a fine career resurgence as a character actress. Supposedly Williams based Blanche on his tragic sister, who was eventually lobotomized. However, looking at his play through a 21st century lens, we can easily note the similarity of Blanche's demise to that of Rosemary Kennedy, a pretty young woman from a famous family with a low IQ , rebellious nature, and a predilection toward promiscuity. In '41 her father had her lobotomized (without the knowledge and consent of both Rosemary and her mother). Just sayin'. |
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| re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? | |
| Posted by: garyd 10:44 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? - BroadwayTonyJ 07:34 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| Yes, I know but my reply to bobby2 was a bit terse and then I remembered reading something similar and dug through bookmarks and found the link. And yes, there is an echo of Rose(William's sister) in Blanche though not the thunder clap that is in Laura and there is even an echo of fictional Blanche in Maggie. Blanche lost Belle Reve but Maggie was not about to lose all those fertile acres this side of the river Nile. Good for her. And if one thinks about it further, "Sunset" (film and musical), "Streetcar...","Cat....", and even "Follies", "The Iceman Cometh" and "Long Days Journey...." among many others. all close on the same delusional note. So I don't know about stealing. |
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| re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? | |
| Posted by: bearcat 12:14 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? - bobby2 12:50 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| how do you think Blanche and Norma would have gotten along? this would be something for Forbidden Bway or Christopher Durang to explore... | |
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| re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:30 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Was there any talk when Sunset came out that they were stealing from Williams? - bearcat 12:14 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| Fighting for that final close-up or bow or top billing | |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 10:57 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| In Angels in America, when Prior says "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers," Hannah responds "Well, that's a stupid thing to do." | |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: smv 09:34 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| Blanche doesn't know Shaw. Does she "really" know Shep Huntleigh? The people who really know her have let her down. Her family has squandered her inheritance through their "epic fornications" and their misguided ideals, which she has so mistakenly internalized. Her sister, to whom she has come for help, abandons her sister in favor of her rapist husband. Her brother-in-law rapes her. Her husband kills himself after he can't live up to her idea of him (which obviously did not include his being gay, due to the way she has been brought up). Nobody who is close to her helps her. Where does Blanche seek comfort? In the arms of young men (like her dead husband). In the young army men who call to her from her yard. With traveling salesman who come and go, but offer her a quick moment of comfort, since she is always fighting the split between her "proper" Southern Belle attitude and her internal desire. Nobody she knows helps her. In perhaps one moment of self-recognition in play of illusions, she says that she has always depended on the kindness of strangers. I have always read that line as a biting indictment of her family and a sad but true self-assessment. |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 08:00 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| Well, I'm not sure we know if Shep and/or Shaw should really be classified as strangers to Blanche, but yes, the main point is that the line is wide open to interpretation. | |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 07:31 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| I concur, though, considering the number of strangers she's encountered in her tragic life, it's her way of saying/asking "Please be good to me. I'm depending on you." As you say, it's ironic as the strangers are anything but kind. | |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: MFeingold 07:28 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| Blanche continues to fascinate audiences becaues she's such a complex and often contradictory figure; the line resonates, and went into common parlance, not only because of the bitter irony of the dramatic context, but because it can be read so many ways and has so many possible meanings. I have seen Blanches - Lois Nettleton in Ellis Rabb's Lincoln Center production when it transferred to Broadway comes to mind - who played the last scene totally sane and desperately eager to put everything connected with Stanley and that place behind her. There is no easy way to predict what sort of institution Blanche is going to or how she will cope there. Blanche is emotionally fragile, and a gantasist, but she can also be surprisingly hard-headed and practical, as well as more than a little deceitful. She has survived a lot, and may have the toughness and intelligence/cunning to go on doing so. Hard to tell. Which is just another way of saying there's a reason we think of this as a great play. |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: Thom915 10:01 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Streetcar Named Desire - MFeingold 07:28 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| Interesting. I loved Lois Nettleton's Blanche and though I would possibly agree with you that she was sane compared to other Blanches I have seen, she was definitely IMO traumatized. That production was one of my favorite productions I have ever seen of the play and of course Lois Nettleton replaced and based her interpretation on that of Rosemary Harris who originated the role in that revival. I personally think Nettleton was even better than Harris, who was great. | |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: bearcat 12:21 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Streetcar Named Desire - Thom915 10:01 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| unfortunately, the Bway transfer ended rather quickly. didn't Lois Nettleton appear on the Mary Tyler Moore show once-anyone remember her situation - character on it? |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire—Lois Nettleton on MTM | |
| Posted by: Johno60 10:29 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 12:21 pm EDT 06/05/18 | |
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| I think Lois Nettleton did a guest spot as a TV producer who had some authority over Lou Grant—and pursued him romantically. I think she also caught George Costanza going through the garbage and wanted her daughter to break up with him. Lois Nettleton—always worked—for years |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: allineedisthegirl 10:14 am EDT 06/05/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Streetcar Named Desire - Thom915 10:01 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| The sanest Blanche I've seen was Cate Blanchette. She was Stanley's equal from her first meeting with him, mixing active seduction in equal parts with her belittling of him. And the "rape" scene was ambiguous. It seemed likely that Blanche's claim to Stella that she had been raped was a tactical move, and that Stella's choosing to believe Stanley over her sister was a practical choice. db |
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| re: Streetcar Named Desire | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:54 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
| In reply to: Streetcar Named Desire - bearcat 06:33 pm EDT 06/04/18 | |
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| I think this is one of those iconic phrases that in becoming part of common parlance has been stripped of its context. As people use it in everyday conversation, it is sincere; as used in the original play, there is the bitter irony that you note; and as used at the end of "Angels in America", both aspects of the phrase get exercised. | |
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