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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 01:29 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - bobby2 01:00 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| Mow that we’re talking about the Baker’s Wife....did she have a different story-arc when the show was being developed? SPOILER It seems she’s abruptly killed off. Was there a more dynamic lead-up to her death? Did she ever survive? |
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| re: answer to your spoiler question | |
| Posted by: superior_exterior 09:50 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - lordofspeech 01:29 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| SPOILERS, for both Into the Woods and its earlier drafts Into Broadway previews, the Baker’s Wife did not die in the same scene of Act II as she does now following Moments in the Woods. She rejoins the group. Cinderella, who talks to birds, knows where she’s been and isn’t happy about it. An argument ensues between the Baker, his wife, and Cinderella about what is and isn’t being said when the giant approaches with more destruction to the woods. The Baker’s Wife snaps into defensive mode and throws herself over her baby to shield the child from a falling tree, which saves the baby and kills her. Further spoiler, at this point in development, the Narrator is also not killed in the scene we’ve come to know. He survives the show and reveals himself to be the Baker’s son in a final monologue and having been told the story of how it all happened. |
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| re: answer to your spoiler question | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 12:37 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: answer to your spoiler question - superior_exterior 09:50 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| Oh my Goodness! Thank you!!! I like those events so much better. Even tho I intellectually/aesthetically admire the intentionally arbitrary nature of death (her death) in the current version...still...I LOVE THE OTHER IDEA. That she dies saving the baby. Maybe too melodramatic even for this whimsical show’s second, heavy act. Maybe it felt heavy-handed....but I love it and love knowing it. Plus the son-as-narrator. Of course right, as Yenta might say. THANK YOU!!! |
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| re: answer to your spoiler question | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:41 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: answer to your spoiler question - lordofspeech 12:37 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| It's a valid way to end her story too... but I think it significantly changes the points made in Act 2 currently, which I prefer. "Sometimes people leave us" is not easily replaced by "sometimes people die protecting their child's life", and it's a very different message and theme and event and kind of loss. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:20 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - lordofspeech 01:29 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| I feel like if you're saying her death is abrupt as a criticism, you may be missing the point. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: robert_j 10:22 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - Chazwaza 03:20 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| It is not so much that the death is abrupt but that it falls into the "death by sex" trope. She has illicit sex and immediately dies -- the prince has no consequences. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: winters 12:30 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - robert_j 10:22 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| Princes rarely have consequences 'Fallen' women usually do. |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: bmc 01:08 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - winters 12:30 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| I Always thought it would have worked better if the wife and Prince just kissed; It would make her death seem less like punishment, and wouldn't have scandalized the children in the audience. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:01 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - winters 12:30 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| This is a sad truth in our world. But I also do not think this is what the show is trying to say and I think it's pointless to project that onto the show or read into the timing of it. If it happened right after the "intimacy" with the prince, I could see it taken as a direct consequence in the world of the woods, or if she had decided to leave her husband because of it. But she has a whole lengthy song where she weighs what just happened and comes to appreciate her husband even more than before. That makes it all the more sad and upsetting when she is killed so randomly, and while alone, trying to get back to the group. |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: Delvino 08:46 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - Chazwaza 03:20 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| Ah, thank you. One of the great attributes of "Woods" is that very plot point, illustrating the random, capricious nature of death. "Sometimes people leave you..." The show is a hellluva story, even epic, but also an intimate meditation on loss. Its second act resonates so powerfully because it sees fairy tales as the moral and spiritual guides they were intended to be. The death of this wonderfully complex woman is indeed a reason the ending is so beautiful: survivors ... survive. | |
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| A less charismatic Baker's Wife is an asset, I think | |
| Posted by: Kjisgroovy 02:21 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - Delvino 08:46 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| Joanna Gleason created one of the great characters of musical theater... but I think it throws off the balance of the show. She's not the lead... in a show where there are four leads. I think the show itself shines much brighter when the Baker's Wife is another well-rounded character that's part of the cast. I think Bernadette's presence as The Witch also lead to an imbalance. The Baker and Cinderella's journeys (and to a lesser extent Jack and Red) should be the focus of the show. Obviously... A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH ME. | |
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| re: A less charismatic Baker's Wife is an asset, I think | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:40 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: A less charismatic Baker's Wife is an asset, I think - Kjisgroovy 02:21 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| I agree to at least some degree. I think the show has four leads — Witch, Baker, Baker's Wife and Cinderella. Ultimately, if there's one central figure, it's the Baker. But it's an unshowy role. Having said that, I have seen productions where the Baker really seemed the central figure, where the weight of his journey carried us through. For various reasons, that didn't quite happen in the original production. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 08:13 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - Chazwaza 03:20 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| Well, maybe it’s partly a criticism. It reminds me of Dot’s abrupt pregnancy in “Sunday in the Park...,” another Lapine show. It’s a Lapine aesthetic, and it’s fine. But I thought I remembered that one of the sages on this board knew something or other about the story-development on “Into the Woods” and that there might have been something else that got cut. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:10 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - lordofspeech 08:13 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| A lot got cut and changed from the first performances at the Old Globe through to opening night on Broadway. I may have written about some of those changes here in the past, but if I did, I don't have the post handy and I don't have the time or patience to try to write a new post on it now. Sorry! But a lot did change, and some valuable and/or fun stuff was gone. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: superior_exterior 02:16 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - AlanScott 02:10 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| I wouldn't mind someone figuring out a way to put the full Second Midnight back into a production. I know the first act is already fairly full...but I think the show is well-loved enough at this point that people would accept adding another few minutes back in. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:24 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - superior_exterior 02:16 pm EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| Oh, I love "Second Midnight." One of the many oddities of Sondheim's two books is the version of "Second Midnight" that's in there, which is missing stuff. | |
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| re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? | |
| Posted by: dooey 08:32 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Did anyone ever come close to Joanna Gleason as the Baker's Wife? - lordofspeech 08:13 am EDT 06/19/18 | |
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| The day we first meet Dot, she's already pregnant; she just doesn't know it yet. It's hinted at early on: DOT: "Nothing seems to fit me right." and GEORGES: "...Dot getting fat, fat, fat. Waiting to go out, out out." |
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