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| re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 10:05 pm EDT 06/20/18 | |
| In reply to: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? - bobby2 09:18 pm EDT 06/20/18 | |
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| For Sweeney, they talked to Richard Kiley and John Cullum before deciding on Hearn. Cullum has said that he turned it down, not wanting to be a replacement at that time. When he said this in an interview in 1990, he may have forgotten that he was a replacement in Deathtrap at the time they would have been talking to him about Sweeney, but at the time he may have wanted to re-establish himself in plays. In that 1990 interview he said that he regretted turning it down. Given that he was in audibly damaged voice for the last few months of the On the Twentieth Century run, I'm not sure how he would have coped with Sweeney. I think I read him in an interview long ago saying that he had an operation for nodes after Twentieth Century closed, but I can't find that interview so maybe I'm imagining it. I have wondered if he was reluctant to take on the role after his vocal troubles in Twentieth Century. Anyway, although he was certainly a bigger name than Hearn at that time, I don't think he would have been much of a draw a year into the run of Sweeney Todd. I have no idea what happened with Kiley, but he had pretty consistently been performing no more than 6 or 7 performances a week in Man of La Mancha for a long time whenever he did it (which was a lot), so it's hard to imagine him agreeing to do 8 performances a week as Sweeney for an extended run. I think he might have been wonderful in the role, although I'm not sure it would have been a great fit for him vocally. But even if they adjusted it a bit for him — as they have for many Sweeneys more recently — I would have loved to see him in the role. Although he was always a huge draw in La Mancha, I'm not sure he would have been a big draw in Sweeney (although probably bigger than Hearn or even Cullum). The only woman I can think of who might have been a bigger draw than Loudon, and who might have been good in the role, and who might have been willing is Jean Stapleton, who did eventually play it much later for a short run in San José. But I think at most they might have gotten a slightly longer run with her. I can think of a couple of other possibilities such as Carol Burnett, but I'm sure she would not have been willing, and Charlotte Rae, who was not really a big name at that time — her greater fame came later — and perhaps never really a draw on Broadway. After that, it's hard for me to think of other possible name replacements. Having said all that, perhaps Richard Kiley and Jean Stapleton together would have drawn, but we'll never know. Perhaps Kiley with Loudon would have drawn pretty well for a while, but, again, we'll never know. Estelle Parsons was approached to do the tour when Lansbury first turned it down, but I don't think she would have been a great draw on Broadway in the role, although she surely would have given an interesting performance. |
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| re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 07:04 am EDT 06/21/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? - AlanScott 10:05 pm EDT 06/20/18 | |
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| It is interesting to imagine possible cast choices had they accepted, but no one is tackling the real elephant in the room. Yes Sweeney is one of Sondheim's masterpieces, but it repulses a fair percentage of people, including die hard fans like me. I have and always will have limited tolerance for it. A few years ago two companies were doing Assassins and I ended up seeing both productions, a mere three weeks apart. I find, difficult as Assassins is, I doubt I would be willing to see Sweeney twice that close together. | |
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| re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:31 pm EDT 06/21/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? - Snowysdad 07:04 am EDT 06/21/18 | |
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| "Yes Sweeney is one of Sondheim's masterpieces, but it repulses a fair percentage of people, including die hard fans like me. I have and always will have limited tolerance for it." I'm sure you're right that a "fair percentage" of people don't like the show, whether or not they're actually repulsed by it. But I have the impression that, over the years, SWEENEY TODD has become one of Sondheim's most popular shows as rated by the huge number of stage productions at every level, plus the fact that it's one of the few Sondheim shows to be made into a "major motion picture," not to mention two high-profile video productions (the original touring company and the concert version with LuPone, Hearn, and the San Francisco Symphony). I'm not counting WEST SIDE STORY or GYPSY, but among shows with both music and lyrics by Sondheim, it really does seem to me that SWEENEY is among the most popular, right up there with INTO THE WOODS and ....FORUM. |
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| re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:30 pm EDT 06/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? - Michael_Portantiere 04:31 pm EDT 06/21/18 | |
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| I wouldn't be surprised if Sweeney is now generally getting more productions than Forum, which it seems some people find objectionable and basically unfunny nowadays. Which is very sad to me, since I totally love Forum, but it does need to be done very well, despite what Sondheim said long ago about it working in even high school productions. But I think there are people who would find even the most brilliant production of Forum coarse, sexist, misogynist and unfunny. (Truth is that it did not get universal raves even in 1962.) Of course, it is somewhat coarse, although in a sort of refined way (if that's possible), but I don't find it at all sexist and/or misogynist. And I sure find it funny, at least when it's done well. In fact, at the moment MTI lists 10 upcoming productions of Forum and 25 upcoming productions of Sweeney. |
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| re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:08 pm EDT 06/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? - AlanScott 06:30 pm EDT 06/24/18 | |
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| I think the book is bawdy and the score is tuneful and witty... I think many people didn't find them to be the perfect match. I think the show as a whole is wonderful. But I don't think Sondheim's score is very coarse at all, maybe to a fault. Though clearly not since it was met with a lot of success when they combined the book and score. I don't know what people these days think, but I've always heard and agreed that the Forum book is one of the best musical books out there. |
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| did they ever consider Gwen Verdon? Or approach Julie Andrews? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:31 am EDT 06/21/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Could the original have run longer with bigger star replacements? - AlanScott 10:05 pm EDT 06/20/18 | |
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| I would have really loved to see her do this role... I think in many ways it is ideally suited to her. I have no idea if she can do accent, or play the dark drama of it, but I think seeing her try would have been so interesting. And she was surely still a name to many people especially on Broadway. To match her with a project like this would have been newsworthy I'd think. I also wonder if they approached Julie Andrews, who could at least do the accent, and would have been fascinating in the role and a big draw. What about Georgia Brown? Or Cleo Laine? Even Penny Fuller (not much of a name I assume but probably very capable for the role)? Or what about Millicent Martin or Julia McKenzie? |
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| re: did they ever consider Gwen Verdon? Or approach Julie Andrews? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:53 pm EDT 06/24/18 | |
| In reply to: did they ever consider Gwen Verdon? Or approach Julie Andrews? - Chazwaza 05:31 am EDT 06/21/18 | |
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| I don't think Verdon could have done the accent — her English accent in Redhead was not at all convincing, but for that show it didn't need to be — or that she could have sung it at that point in her career. As JereNYC says below, her singing became very limited over time. I agree that otherwise she might have brought interesting qualities to the role. I responded to bobby2 about Andrews. Georgia Brown probably would have needed some big vocal adjustments made to the role and would not have been a draw. Admittedly, Loudon needed one vocal adjustment, but otherwise she could sing it, although she wasn't really able to do the accent. Cleo Laine is an interesting idea, but although she might have been very good in the role, I don't think even she was the kind of draw that would have been needed for Broadway audiences. Penny Fuller would have brought three people to the box office, which is perhaps more than Julia McKenzie (who did later play it to acclaim in London) would have brought. Millicent Martin (who I think never played the role) would have brought seven people to the box office. She probably would have been very good, but it would have died a very quick death unless Paul Newman had played Sweeney opposite her. Fuller and McKenzie might also have seemed a bit young for the role at the time. |
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| re: did they ever consider Gwen Verdon? Or approach Julie Andrews? | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 12:07 pm EDT 06/21/18 | |
| In reply to: did they ever consider Gwen Verdon? Or approach Julie Andrews? - Chazwaza 05:31 am EDT 06/21/18 | |
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| Would Gwen Verdon have been up to playing Mrs. Lovett at that point in her life? Did Verdon do any stage work at all after she left CHICAGO? Though Mrs. Lovett would be easy movement show for a virtuoso like her, I wonder if she could have handled the singing. The most recent Fosse bio from a couple of years ago points out that a lifetime of smoking really took its toll on Verdon's voice and that people were pointing that out even by the midpoint in her career. For what it's worth, that bio also points out that the smoking was even taking its toll on her dancing, but I imagine that Verdon's worst day dancing was probably miles above what mere mortals could achieve on their best days. |
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