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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 12:52 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - ARReith1982 12:19 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| This is all fascinating to me - as Ms Stifelman did a 6 month run of star driven musical for me, and was nothing other than professional and terrifically talented throughout. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: AC126748 02:02 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - NewtonUK 12:52 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| And with all due respect to everyone who's commented, the information surrounding this situation has been almost entirely one-sided. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: Cainebj 03:37 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - AC126748 02:02 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| I have to agree with AC126748 - it all feels like someone's one sided narrative to fit a particular story they want to tell. The more I hear about it, the more suspicious it all sounds. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: writerkev 02:17 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - AC126748 02:02 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| If anyone dares question any of it, the PC police pounce. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: Huss417 08:37 am EDT 07/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - writerkev 02:17 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| This is what you said "Definitely sounds like he had a rough rehearsal, but it wouldn’t be the first one in Broadway history. I’m very sorry he’s gone, but we’re to believe he killed himself over this?" This was my response. "I don't think the family or anyone else related to the situation cares if you believe or not. Just because you might think something doesn't necessarily mean you have to say it out loud. Do you know what leads every person to suicide?" If you think this is the "PC Police" sad to hear. If you try to read again without your assumptions you questioned if this was enough for him to kill himself over. You don't have a problem with that. Do You know what triggers any one person to suicide? If you don't think the ask to your question was in poor taste then explain calling those who did the PC Police. So this was not agreeing or disagreeing about your post but rather the insensitively over your flippancy toward how someone takes their own life. You should read up on the topic. |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:25 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - writerkev 02:17 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| What in the world does political correctness have to do with this issue? I swear, those so-called PC Police get blamed for everything. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: writerkev 05:49 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - Singapore/Fling 05:25 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| PC applies to more than race. It seems like it's politically incorrect these days to suggest there might be another side to this story. Any question that doesn't fully, wholeheartedly leap to the conclusion that the director and MD pushed this actor to suicide reflects very poorly on the asker. You can see what I mean. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:46 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - writerkev 05:49 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| Respectfully, that's not what you wrote that people jumped on. I mentioned this in another response, but this post of yours seems to miss what you said. I'll save you the trouble of finding it: "I’m very sorry he’s gone, but we’re to believe he killed himself over this?" | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: Huss417 02:02 pm EDT 07/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - ryhog 10:46 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| If our comments in regard to the Original Post make us the "PC Police" then I will wear the badge proudly. But the OP seems to see nothing wrong with this and seems to want to start something with those of us that pointed out. As I have said and they haven't come back with a response as it doesn't seem to fit their narrative. I would like to know what you think the criteria for suicide is? | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: laddnyc 12:29 pm EDT 07/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - ryhog 10:46 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| I couldn't agree more...all about that sentence...cold and seemingly unfeeling. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 01:18 am EDT 07/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - ryhog 10:46 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| Oh, I see. That does change what I wrote below, as this does seem to be a case of someone saying something insensitive and/or dehumanizing and having that challenged. I would hope that reasonable people could agree that there are complexities and nuances in this situation without being disrespectful to a human being who clearly was suffering from some sort of terrible psychological and/or physical pain. This seems particularly important when the question is whether this person was treated with respect and at what point insensitivity turns into bullying. To be clear, I am not suggesting that the OP's crass comments in any way mirror that behavior that is alleged of Walter Bobbie and Leslie Stifleman, but I do think there are more respectful ways of questioning the degree of causality between this terrible workplace incident and Loeffelholtz's suicide. |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 10:24 am EDT 07/13/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - Singapore/Fling 01:18 am EDT 07/13/18 | |
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| I've written this elsewhere here on this topic, but, even if you completely divorce the reported incidents at this rehearsal from Loeffelholtz's suicide, the way this rehearsal was handled by Bobbie and Stifleman was completely unprofessional and should be addressed. That is, if the reports we're all reading are accurate, of course. So no matter how you look at this terrible tragedy, things need to change in the theatre if the reported behavior had been considered acceptable. Workplace harassment is not just a thing that happens to people who sit behind desks. People who sing and dance and act deserve basic human respect too and, if the powers that be, can't figure out how to treat people under them like human beings (oh, and follow long established procedures for addressing issues), then something needs to happen here. |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:28 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - writerkev 05:49 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| I see what you're saying, but I do think that PC has become a bit of a catchall that is applied to any instance in which someone feels they can't express themselves. I would agree that this example might be a great fit for the negative connotation of the word, as in a synonym for censorship. My concern, though, is that when we use PC to mean censorship, we are empowering the people who use it as a pejorative because it prevents them from saying blatantly racist, misogynistic, or otherwise harmful words. Rather than having to say, "I want to be a racist jerk", they get to say "The PC Police are censoring me". That's my concern. |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:37 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - writerkev 02:17 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| I don't think that's fair but I'd also note that in the court of public opinion, you don't have the right to remain silent, and silence will be construed against you. Both of them are free to speak up at any time. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:27 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - ryhog 02:37 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| For the record, the New York Post has reached out to Walter Bobbie and Leslie Stifelman for comment. Bobbie said: “I am saddened by Jeff’s tragic passing, for him and for his family.” And the Post reports: ''Stifelman didn’t get back to us.'' That's been about a week ago. |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: writerkev 02:54 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - ryhog 02:37 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| My post at the beginning of this thread which asked a simple question was quickly shouted down by two people who thought I shouldn't have even voiced it. So, there's that. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:52 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - writerkev 02:54 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| I don't really want to get into a debate with you about the tenor or your post or the reactions to it. Suffice to say that a post dripping in incredulity is hardly simple. | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: writerkev 04:05 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - writerkev 02:54 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| (Actually it was the thread a bit further down on the board, not this one.) | |
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| re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? | |
| Posted by: TMGnyc 01:33 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has Leslie Stifelman been put on a leave of absence or is she still conducting CHICAGO? - NewtonUK 12:52 pm EDT 07/12/18 | |
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| I feel you may have put your finger on the difference - "of a star driven musical..." | |
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