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| That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 04:01 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: White privilege - Gustave 03:49 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| To quote someone more eloquent than myself: White privilege doesn't mean your life hasn't been hard. It means that your skin color isn't one of the things making it harder. | |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: Gustave 05:00 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: That's not what it means - MockingbirdGirl 04:01 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| You miss the point. How do you know my life hasn't been harder because of the color of my (white) skin? Maybe I was raised in a Black neighborhood. Or passed over for promotion in favor of a less-qualified "diversity" candidate. You're choosing to label an entire group of people based on the color of their skin, i.e., racism. Gustave | |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 05:08 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - Gustave 05:00 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| You name suggests that you might not be an American. I can assure you that in America, every white person who has ever gone on a job interview, dealt with cops, shopped for jewelry, etc. knows the advantages they have because they are white. You have to be brain dead not to notice it if you live in the US. It may be different in Europe or Africa, but in the US "white privilege" is very real. |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:38 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - whereismikeyfl 05:08 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| You[r] name suggests that you might not be an American. Ok, so I know what you mean to say, but how you said it really could be easily taken as a microaggression. I've become more sensitive to this lately due to some tensions in my workplace. It's a very easy trap to fall into, but it can also come across as very offensive to the person you're specking to, whether you intended that or not. Gustave could very well be an American citizen, despite their heritage. Don't jump to conclusions just because the name may not be the most obvious common one. For that matter, it absolutely could simply be a screenname, just as mine is Chromolume. Just as "mikey" may make some people think you must be a kid. But clearly you're not. ;-) Careful the things you say...posters will listen... |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: Gustave 05:33 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - whereismikeyfl 05:08 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| And you know this? EVERY American? Really? Gustave | |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 06:38 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - Gustave 05:33 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| When I hear of someone who can actually catalog systematic discrimination for being white, then yes. Even in your examples, you could only come up with a few idiosyncratic individual scenarios--and I suspect that really is all there is out there. | |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:17 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - whereismikeyfl 06:38 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| I think the case of this hypothetical white kid raised in a black neighborhood is actually a great example of how white privilege works. In their neighborhood, this white kid will be in the minority, and it is possible that this white person would have a difficult time gaining entry to many of the social, cultural, and economic institutions of the neighborhood. By learning the codes and behaviors of their neighborhood, this hypothetical white person may also forfeit access to certain white institutions that judge people on markers of white performance as well as appearance. In these ways, we see where white privilege falls to help this specific white person. At the same time, when it comes to the police state in the USA, this white person is still less likely to be racially profiled, harassed on the street, and wrongfully arrested, and if they do commit a crime, they will likely face lighter sentencing than a black person would for that same crime. In this way, we see how white privilege has benefited this person, even though they grew up in a non-white neighborhood and may have had other disadvantages. |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:27 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - Gustave 05:33 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| What is the point you want to make? You seem to be insisting that because we can't vouch for *every single white person*, that negates the basic reality of systemic oppression and state violence against people of color in America. | |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: Gustave 08:06 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - Singapore/Fling 06:27 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| I don't think this discussion is going anywhere, so this will be my last comment on the subject. I (obviously) agree that Blacks and other minorities in the United States have faced discrimination. In many cases, more than that. But speaking of "white privilege" has elements of the same kind of thinking, i.e., treating everyone in the group (substitute Blacks, Jews, Asians, gay men and women etc.) as if they all shared the same unsavory characteristic. As I wrote before, I believe the use of the phrase "white privilege" is racist and offensive. You do not. So be it. Gustave PS. As long as microaggressions have been brought up -- contributors should be careful writing "America" when they really mean "United States." |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 10:19 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:08 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - Gustave 08:06 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| The discussion isn't going anywhere because you aren't discussing the issues you're raising. This branch of the thread has been respectful, but even when treated with respect, you are unable to engage in a conversation about race that asks you to simply explain your thoughts on anyone's terms but your own. The act that you have done is itself an expression of white privilege. White privilege is living in a world in which your ethnic identity is so central to the culture that you never have to think of race as something that applies to you. It is never being an other in the dominant culture, and never experiencing what it is to be an other while engaging with that dominant culture. It is being able to ignore race entirely unless it negatively affects you, and only havingit affect you because your previously limitless opportunities as a white man are now limited by people of other races. It is labeling anything that points to the existence of racial privilege in the United States of America, such as conversations of privilege, as racist, and then running away when the conversation starts to get a little real. And PS - anywhere you go in the Americas, being white will be to your advantage, that's one of the wonders of colonialism. |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 09:07 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:04 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - Gustave 08:06 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| PS. As long as microaggressions have been brought up -- contributors should be careful writing "America" when they really mean "United States." The official name, of course, is both - "The United States Of America." (And of course I think of Thomson in 1776 commenting that that doesn't seem like a very good name for a new country.) But it's been called "America" as often as it's called "The United States" or "the US" or "The USA" or even "The US of A." I don't think that any of those titles are any more right or meaningful than another - no connotations, etc. We know from context whether someone is referring to New York as a state or a city - we know from context that one means either the state of Washington or Washington DC. This isn't Bet Hatikvah vs. Petah Tikvah. With a P. And Irving Berlin wrote "God Bless America" all those years ago, not "God Bless You, Nited States." ;-) Next topic, please - as I do agree this thread is going nowhere - with a B. |
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| re: That's not what it means | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 07:35 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
| In reply to: re: That's not what it means - Singapore/Fling 06:27 pm EDT 07/14/18 | |
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| With due respect to the people doing a fine job of articulating what "white privilege" means in this context and in general, it feels like the thread is starting to veer off-course and may have outlived its usefulness. Gustave and the OP seem determined NOT to understand the history of race in the United States. It does not take an advanced degree in Critical Race Studies to understand that non-white people, since the time of the Pilgrims, have been dispossessed or treated as possessions in this country, and that theatre is one of the many venues in which they have had lack of access. If posters truly need deep explanation as to why blackface (or yellowface or redface or transface, as I have heard it called) continue the lack of fairness, I'm not sure any amount of eloquent and straightforward explanation will help. It certainly doesn't seem to be helping in our nation at large. | |
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