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| re: I'm sorry to say that it's probably not hyperbole. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:26 pm EDT 07/15/18 | |
| In reply to: I'm sorry to say that it's probably not hyperbole. - AlanScott 08:26 pm EDT 07/15/18 | |
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| "This whole mid-show standing ovation thing is just getting worse and worse." I completely agree. One of the worst things to happen to Broadway theatre in recent years. And this is a general statement on my part, not specifically related to anything that may have happened during Bernadette Peters' final performance in HELLO, DOLLY!, which I did not attend. |
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| re: I'm sorry to say that it's probably not hyperbole. | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 11:44 pm EDT 07/15/18 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 11:41 pm EDT 07/15/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I'm sorry to say that it's probably not hyperbole. - Michael_Portantiere 11:26 pm EDT 07/15/18 | |
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| Exactly. Let's enjoy the show and maybe stand afterwards. If the person is special, a standing O after the title number maybe. But up and down all night to make yourself feel good about being there? It rings false. No matter how excited people say they were. Bernadette is an awesome singer/actress. Dolly is a good musical. The production is top notch. Why can't it just be 'great' and not 'THE MOST LEGENDARY MOMENT IN MUSICAL THEATER'? If the latter were true, then great, 7 standing ovations and let's keep our ticket stubs and brag to everyone that we were there, but like Alan Scott says, this is something that happens often. In other words, it's not special. It's irritating. | |
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| re: I'm sorry to say that it's probably not hyperbole. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:04 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I'm sorry to say that it's probably not hyperbole. - KingSpeed 11:41 pm EDT 07/15/18 | |
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| If you read the comments from those present, it seems clear to me that they were attending an event, and not the theatre. What was memorable was what the audience did, at least as much as what the performers did. To me this is an extension of the standing ovation at the end, which I (and I am not alone) would argue is also about the audience and not the performers. I think this is where we are now. I don't think the genie is going back in the bottle. | |
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| Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 01:33 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:29 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I'm sorry to say that it's probably not hyperbole. - KingSpeed 11:41 pm EDT 07/15/18 | |
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| And I'll add that I don't want to suggest that it wasn't wonderful to be there today and that the performance wasn't spectacular. But I've been at a bunch of pretty great closing performances at which nothing like that happened. I mention some of those below. I'm wondering if anyone thinks that this final Peters Hello, Dolly! was probably so much greater a performance or event than any of the ones I mention below. Some might reply, "Hello, Dolly! is a show that invites such responses." Even if I buy that, six mid-show standing ovations still seem a bit much. But it's not just shows like Hello, Dolly! I remember it being reported here that at the final performance of the Roundabout Sunday in the Park With George, not only did the audience stand for "Move On," they then remained standing through the end of the show. As I said elsewhere, I find this sort of thing really disrespectful to other audience members who may not want to or even be easily able to stand. You're blocking people's view of the stage, forcing them to stand. And if the person in front of you is tall and you're not, you may not be able to see much even if you stand. As far as I'm concerned, folks who do this kind of thing have no right to complain about latecomers disrupting performances and forcing you to stand. Yes, it's somewhat different, and, yes, you're usually not alone when you stand to applaud a song, but still you're blocking people's view and forcing them to stand. When I saw Something Rotten! during previews, a fair number of people stood for that silly number. It makes me think of Pavlov's dogs. It was also reported here recently that there were several standing ovations at the first performance of Songs for a New World at City Center so it's not even always a final performance or big-star kind of thing. It's that for some people in some circumstances applause and even extended applause is no longer considered enough. I don't believe that people get so excited that they absolutely can't help it, they HAVE to stand. It's not possible for them to remain seated. I do believe that some of them stand because they have to if they want to see the performers. Does anyone want to offer some justification for this kind of behavior? To be specific about the shows I mentioned in the first paragraph, I was at the final Cariou-Lansbury Sweeney (still one of the two greatest performances I've ever seen of anything) and the closing performances of the original productions of Pacific Overtures (no standing ovation even at the end), On the Twentieth Century, Merrily We Roll Along, Sunday in the Park With George, Into the Woods and Passion. I was at what was supposed to have been Tyne Daly's final performance of Gypsy (no one knew she'd come back in a return engagement, which happened just because the London run was canceled due to the Gulf War) and what was supposed to have been Bernadette Peters's final performance in Sunday in the Park With George (she came back unannounced for the Pulitzer committee nine days later and then, if we count this, for the performances that were shot with invited audiences but for which tickets were not on sale to the general public). I was at the final Broadway performance of Dewhurst and Robards in A Moon for the Misbegotten and a lot of other final performances, but i'm just trying to mention those that people will realize were exciting performances to attend. I was at the final performance of the original production of Parade, at which an unusual reaction did happen at the end of a number: "Come Up to My Office" stopped the show despite it having been staged to discourage any applause at all. But the audience wasn't having it that way at that performance, and the actors had to stand there for a longish amount of applause at a place where they usually just proceeded directly back into dialogue. Of course, many numbers stopped the show in a big way at some of the performances, and performers had to stand there or find something to do. I remember Kay McClelland having to pace back and forth for a long time after "Moments in the Woods" at the final Into the Woods performance. And sometimes there was extended entrance applause that caused performers to have stand there and find something to do when they just usually continued on. At one final performance, I think an actress was so startled and unsettled by receiving about a minute of entrance applause that it threw her off for the whole performance (or so it seemed to me as I thought this actress seemed very off in comparison with the earlier times I'd seen her). But extended applause is one thing. Again, there was not a mid-show standing ovation at any of the final performances I've mentioned attending. Not one. And as I said, there was not a standing ovation even at the end of Pacific Overtures. And at the final Saturday matinee of Channing's last Broadway run of Hello, Dolly! there were no standing ovations during the show visible to me from my seat in the fourth row of the Lunt-Fontanne balcony. The audience went wild, but did not stand even for the title number, at least not upstairs. At the end, we all stood, but not during the show. (Actually, I am starting to wonder if perhaps a few isolated pockets of people did stand for the title number and I've forgotten, but if so, not many.) At classical concerts, it's generally considered incorrect and even impolite to applaud between movements of a symphony or concerto or sonata. This was not always true, it's a relatively modern development and perhaps a foolish one. Anyway, classical concerts can be pretty darn exciting, but generally you don't even applaud till the end of a piece (which perhaps partly explains why that sometimes goes on for very long times). I don't particularly wonder about the "why" of this. I think we generally know why. I just wonder if anyone thinks this is a good thing and, if so, the why of that. Soon we're going to be standing for entire shows, which I guess is very Elizabethan, but we'll be standing for different reasons. |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: david_withv 10:09 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - AlanScott 01:29 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| I think any time an audience is excited and engaged it’s a good thing. As new trends emerge, whether it’s a “mandatory” standing ovation at the end of a show or a series of mid show standing ovations, I think it’s likely that it’s a newer younger audience who is perpetuating these new trends. There is a lot of media competing for attention and if a younger audience is choosing to come to the theater I’d rather them be over enthusiastic and engaged than playing on their phones and drinking a big gulp. | |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:54 pm EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - david_withv 10:09 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| and if a younger audience is choosing to come to the theater I’d rather them be over enthusiastic and engaged than playing on their phones and drinking a big gulp. Maybe, maybe not. Remember the live filming of Legally Blonde with the girls in the audience all squealing as if we were back at an Elvis concert? I feel bad for the people in the audience who actually wanted to see the show. And don't tell me that was all choreographed for the camera either. |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 04:53 pm EDT 07/16/18 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:53 pm EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - david_withv 10:09 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| I suppose if that's the choice . . . maybe it's better to stay home. Do we think that so much of the audience at this final Peters performance of Hello, Dolly! was a newer and younger audience? Thank you for answering. |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: david_withv 11:44 pm EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - AlanScott 04:53 pm EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| I’m sure a large number of them were younger people who grew up watching her on their Into The Woods and Sunday in the Park With George dvds. | |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 08:43 am EDT 07/17/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - david_withv 11:44 pm EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| You were there, and I wasn't, and if you say there was a large number of younger people, I certainly can't doubt you. You were there, and I wasn't. Of course, younger could mean 40-45 in this context. :) But I have a good many younger friends — younger than 40-45 — who are avid theatregoers. So I can believe you with no problem. So even if I accept this as likely being the wave of the future (and certainly the wave of the present), I'd still like to believe that things can change, that the future is not already written in stone. But, again, my annoyance at this behavior for being excessive is not the main point. The main point is that this behavior seems to me remarkably thoughtless and inconsiderate. People of limited mobility do go to the theatre. Nowadays Broadway houses try to accommodate them in a fairer way than was perhaps the norm in the past, something I'm sure we all think is good. Even if we decide that people who don't have mobility problems but also don't really want to keep standing up and down and to stand through a whole number have their choice — stand up or don't see it — what about people of limited mobility? Do we just say to them, "Too bad. If you can't stand up on your own, why did you come to this performance? Stay home." I don't know how many times I've read here people saying with great indignation that latecomers should not be seated till after intermission or, if there's no intermission, not at all. The latecomers are disrupting the right of people who got there on time to see the performance uninterrupted. And, of course, those people are speaking of their own right. "I got there on time. I have the right to see the performance uninterrupted." I would hope that people who feel that way would also feel that this applies to them, and that they shouldn't disrupt the right of others to see the performance. And, again, what about a shorter person who is seated behind a much taller person? We all know this can be a problem even when everyone is seated. How much more of a problem might this be when the person in front is standing? What if there are two or three tall people next to each other in front of a shorter person? The shorter person will probably not be able to look around them or through them. At least with latecomers, the disruption is usually relatively brief. With the entire title song of Hello, Dolly! it's not brief. And the number is, for many, the highlight of the show. So in our theoretically enlightened age, at least as New York theatregoers, we should be more considerate. |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: EveryLittleChore 03:21 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - AlanScott 01:29 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| My small piece of "real news" to add here is that in 1972, at the final performance of Follies, "Who's That Woman?" received a raucous standing ovation. The theatre was filled with die-hard fans, all of whom probably knew they would leap to their feet. It was like no other audience experience I ever had. | |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:32 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - EveryLittleChore 03:21 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| And I so wanted to be at that performance, but my parents would not let go to Manhattan by myself in the evening at the age of 14. As I think you are implicitly acknowledging, a mid-show standing ovation was a rare event indeed in 1972. In fact, there was no standing ovation at all either time I saw the show, except from me. I tried to start one but to no avail. :) I should add that I'm not saying that mid-show standing ovations had absolutely never happened before in the entire history of Broadway. I think perhaps there was one at the end of the title number at the closing performance of the original run of Hello, Dolly! I should check with folks who were there. But they were certainly extraordinarily rare. I think the 1970s was the decade when standing ovations during curtain calls started to become a bit more common but were still really quite rare. |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: huskyital (huskyital@yahoo.com) 07:24 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - AlanScott 06:32 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| I saw Carol Channing play it at a matinee at the beginning of the run. There were no standing ovations during the show but she took 14 curtain calls.....the applause would not end......I counted them.....and she deserved it.....still the most memorable Dolly in my humble opinion. | |
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| re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:38 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Serious question for those who like mid-show standing ovations (long) - huskyital 07:24 am EDT 07/16/18 | |
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| And, yeah, that's what used to happen when audiences really wanted to show appreciation: sustained applause, sometimes even cheers, but not standing ovations (or very rarely). And I suppose that in addition to the reasons I stated above, one problem with so many standing ovations — and I know I'm not the first to say this — is that they became virtually meaningless. Which I guess is why mid-show standing ovations are becoming more common. Truly, where will it end? There are far worse problems in the world, but | |
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