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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:28 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - lowwriter 08:03 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
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| He did. A show that will close losing its entire investment, as has every other show of his. There is a basic question that the Tony (and the mention of the Spring Awakening he produced, which was well received) prompts: is it something to be respected and applauded when a commercial producer repeatedly produces shows (some very good) that are financial failures? Had Davenport set up a competitor to the Roundabout (not a bad idea actually), he would not be getting the disrespect he does. But instead he writes blogs and even charges people to teach others how to produce and market commercial Broadway productions, something he has never succeeded in doing. I was always taught that if you want to get a quick read on who is respected, you look to see who has done business with that person. In this case the answer has striking similarities to a certain New York real estate mogul who couldn't get any respect. I guess we should watch out. |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:31 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 08:28 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
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| I'm curious: why is "Once on This Island" going to lose its entire investment? It's been over $500K a week for most of its run, average ticket price is generally in the $100 range, and it's generally been over 90% capacity, with many weeks selling out. With my limited knowledge of these things, it looks like at the very least a soft hit that should recoup (or at least get closer). What is going wrong behind the scenes (or in my layman's analysis) that this show isn't earning money? | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:44 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - Singapore/Fling 11:31 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
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| Over 42 weeks, the show has grossed a bit over $22mil, of which a bit less that $20mil would have been available to the production after off-the-top expenses. It has been reported (here and elsewhere, Dramedy can probably be more specific) that the show's nut (i.e., running expenses each week) is in "the high $400s." I'll assume that means $475k (even though I think most people would think that means something closer to $500k a week. Multiply that by 42 weeks, and you come up with $19,950,000, which means the net profit would be $50,000. So in theory, if my lowball estimates were right, then i am wrong, but not by a meaningful amount (and not even all of that would be available to investors). I stand by losing the entire investment. What went wrong? The answer has many parts but the simple one is that the numbers did not work from the get go and the only chance it had in a small theatre of making enough money would have been to become a super-hit for which people would pay a high premium for tickets. That never happened here (rarely does for a revival) and demand for tickets was never so high that the production could sell significant numbers of premium tickets. $100 is simply not enough any more to pay the bills, at least not in a small venue. (We can also talk about marketing but that's among song.) |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: JohninChicago 12:25 pm EDT 09/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 12:44 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| I think you're exactly right with your numbers and your reasoning, ryhog. The show needs a much higher average ticket price than they've been getting. And I'm not sure there's much of a case to be made for premium pricing in a 696-seat, in-the-round theatre, unless tickets were so hard to get that one would pay it just to get inside the building - not because they want to pay an extra $100 to get a few rows closer. | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:44 pm EDT 09/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - JohninChicago 12:25 pm EDT 09/03/18 | |
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| I agree that the play for premium ticket buyers is to make tickets hard to get, not to have better seats (though there are better and worse seats at Circle). OOTI never got close to seeing over that hump. | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:25 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 12:44 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| To echo Ann, thanks so much for the in depth analysis! | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: Ann 09:49 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 12:44 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| Thanks, in previous threads it was not clear to me (and maybe that was my fault), how you could say it would not make money, when it wasn't showing any signs of closing and the avg ticket price was good. As you, it looks like the numbers never worked (though it may be a success on other levels). | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:02 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - Ann 09:49 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| It was a success on other levels certainly. BTW, if you look at the situation week to week, it is actually quite a bit worse because there are many weeks (like this past week) in which there has been significant negative cash flow. Although early on there is likely reserve to cover this, that reserve doesn't last forever, and once it is gone, the production would have to get priority loans. That adds an interest expense that was not budgeted, and the effect is similar to people who get in financial trouble and start using credit cards to stay afloat. | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: StageLover 08:51 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 08:28 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
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| Seems the majority of the "disrespect" he gets, at least here, comes from you. | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:23 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - StageLover 08:51 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
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| here, maybe, I don't count, but I was referring to in the business. | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 08:02 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 09:23 pm EDT 09/01/18 | |
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| I'm with you on this one, RyHog. Ken is a relentless self promoter. He charges people to read scripts, and take meetings - meaning he profiteers on people with no hope of ever getting a show on, by taking meetings etc. Most of those (us) in the business take meetings based on possible viability of a project, and we don;t charge a penny until hired or otherwise actually involved. That said, Mr Davenport rather inexplicably to some of us, was hired to oversee all of Andrew Lloyd Webber's NY and North American ventures. Based on ....? Another producer who was great at losing peoples money - over and over and over again - was /is press agent cum producer, Jeffre Richards. This year is is lead producer on 2 shows opening 3 weeks apart - Lifespan of a Fact, and An American Son. His flops over the last 10 years include SIGNIFICANT OTHER, AMERICAN PSYCHO, CHINA DOLL, WOLF HALL 1&2, SYLVIA, THE HEIDI CHRONICLES, THE REALISTIC JONESES, BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY, GLENGARRY GLENN ROSS, THE ANARCHIST, BONNIE & CLYDE, BLOODY BLOODY ANDREW JACKSON, A LIFE IN THE THEATRE, ENRON, ALL ABOUT ME, DESIRE UNDER THE ELMS, REASONS TO BE PRETTY. Over the same perios he had a few shows more or less recoup, and success with RACE, PORGY AND BESS (tho did it recoup in 9 months?), ALL THE WAY. |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:13 pm EDT 09/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - NewtonUK 08:02 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| I don't remember if there was ever an announcement about this, but I can't imagine PORGY AND BESS recouped, especially not after Audra McDonald first started missing performances and then cut back her performance schedule. | |
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| re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 05:05 am EDT 09/04/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - Michael_Portantiere 10:13 pm EDT 09/03/18 | |
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| The 2011-12 revival of Porgy and Bess definitely did not recoup. It ran 40.25 weeks (293 perfs plus 28 previews) w/ a total gross of $25,416,849 for a weekly average of about $631,475 -- it probably lost a substantial amount of money. It started out respectably, but Audra had a couple of bouts with illness and there was a huge dip in the weekly grosses. It never really recovered after that. I'm glad I got to see it -- Audra was incredible, but the production was not as effective as 2 other versions (Lyric Opera and Court Theatre) I had seen in Chicago a few years earlier. | |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: chuck6373 08:57 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - NewtonUK 08:02 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| He charges people to read scripts, and take meetings - meaning he profiteers on people with no hope of ever getting a show on, by taking meetings etc. Most of those (us) in the business take meetings based on possible viability of a project, and we don;t charge a penny until hired or otherwise actually involved. That said, Mr Davenport rather inexplicably to some of us, was hired to oversee all of Andrew Lloyd Webber's NY and North American ventures. Based on ....? So which "legitinate" producers will read an "unsolicited" script? Names,please. This is a serious question. |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:18 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - chuck6373 08:57 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| I don't think newt is suggesting that any producer will. (The only exception I can think of is if there is an intern who has nothing to do and is given scripts to keep them occupied, but their precis is not really more likely to be read.) If you are asking because you have such a script, what you have to do is network with any one you can: agents, producers, (smaller) theatre companies, established actors, directors, etc. Once people get to know you it is much more likely that your script will be read. But unsolicited (meaning an envelope arrives with a cover letter in the mail), no. And paying to have your script read does not increase the chance it will be produced; it just may make you feel you've accomplished something when you haven't. |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: chuck6373 12:58 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 10:18 am EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| Good advice, thanks! And I do not think Ken would disagree about the importance of networking. Writing is easy, networking is difficult especially if you have no connections to the theater community. But it is a great show so eventually it will see the light of day. | |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: knud17 08:12 pm EDT 09/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - chuck6373 12:58 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| paraphasing "Putting it Together?" | |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:24 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - chuck6373 12:58 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| If you think writing is easy, you may not be doing it correctly. In terms of networking, in my experience, it's much harder to write a production-worthy script than it is to get something read by someone in the industry. |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 05:29 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - Singapore/Fling 02:24 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| well... I have found in this world of ours that we each bring something different to the table. For some, writing is easy, and for others it is hard. For some, schmoozing (that's the technical term for networking) is easy, whereas some other folks - including many who turn to the solitary life of a writer - it's the equivalent of climbing Everest. (The same is true of other fields of course: for some, acting is easy, while for others, nearly impossible. etc etc) Give me a slab of marble and a chisel... and I'll leave you a pile of rocks. |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:13 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 05:29 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| I've never met a professional writer who said that doing it well was easy. Some may find it easier than others, but no one I know or have read about ever said it was easy. Getting your script read, meanwhile, is as easy as entering an open submission contest (the Yale Drama Series is free) or sending in to open submission theaters. Person to person networking can be tough, but it isn't the only way to get noticed. My hatred of standing in noisy, crowded spaces and talking about myself may have been a liability when I was younger, but it didn't hold back my career to any meaningful degree once I had actually mastered the skills of the craft. I know, each person's mileage may vary, but I read too many scripts from complete amateurs to believe that there are any meaningful barriers to having a script read by a professional. |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:43 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - Singapore/Fling 08:13 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| Chuck can speak for himself but I read what he wrote to imply relativity. I can do certain things more easily than a lot of people, and other things are more difficult for me to wrap my head around. (E.g., quantum physics, string theory...) I think we all have things we enjoy doing and things we CAN do and maybe even well, but that we don't enjoy and they are therefore a challenge. Your last paragraph perhaps. Anyway, let's all hope we can enjoy our labors, if that's not too thematic. :-) | |
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| re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER | |
| Posted by: chuck6373 10:27 am EDT 09/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: reading unsolicited scripts - Producer Ken Davenport on the closing of GETTIN' THE BAND BACK TOGETHER - ryhog 08:43 pm EDT 09/02/18 | |
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| I did not mean to imply that writing, at least writing well, is easy. Relativity is a good concept. When writing, one only needs to depend upon oneself; when finished it is easy to forget the struggle of getting from A to Z of that phase when facing the next challenge as a novice of being noticed. Think of it mathematically - a lot more scripts are written than are ever read. | |
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